Changing out ATF without torque converter drain plug

[ConfederateTyrant]

stingray427, I think you're a little too paranoid about using an unlicensed ATF in your GM. Licenses don't mean anything, other than that GM would recommend it, but as long as it is extensively tested and meets/exceeds all specs (Amsoil and Redline both meet/exceed the DexronIII-H spec that you require, Pablo has told you this about Amsoil many many times), then there is nothing for you to worry about.

Amsoil/Redline/Mobil 1/Royal Purple can all meet the specs without being licensed, but it must meet X-specs and pass X-tests (where X is a variable).

So dude, please just relax and quit asking the same question 2309572937410830124987259257 times.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by stingray427:
So if Amsoil doesn't have the license for Dexron 6 does that mean they have to get the license from GM before they can make the claim that the fluid is Dexron 6?

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No, they don't need to go to all that trouble. they have some special wording they use when they haven't qualified their products but want to make it sound like they did.

Here's an Amsoil page that gives the impression the oil is API.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atm.aspx
Note that they say:

quote:

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APPLICATIONS:
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil is recommended for use in gasoline engines and other applications requiring any of the listed worldwide specifications:

* API SM/CF, SL, SJ ...
* ILSAC GF-4, 3 ...
* ACEA A5/B5
* JASO VTW
* GM 4718M, 6094M
* Ford WSS-M2C205-A
* Daimler Chrysler MS-6395N
* VW 503.00

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They use "is recommended for use" for products that haven't actually been approved. If it's important to you that product meets a spec, watch out for that phrase from botique oil companies.

If you look at the picture on the above website, not that it has acircle with API in it that sort of looks like an API mark, but it isn't.

For companies that says API approval doesn't matter, some sure go out of their way to give the impression that their products are API qualified.

I have no doubt that Amsoil products are good. Unfortunately their marketing practices also have high lubricity.

 

[metroplex]

They added a non-existent Mercedes spec to their Euro 5W-40 and removed it after a few of us contacted them about it.

 

[pbm]

quote:

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Originally posted by b_rubenstein:

It does not hurt the transmission to momentarily run the sump dry: the engine is only idling and there is no load on the transmission. There is no reason to try and keep up pouring fluid into the transmission as the fluid is being pumped out. [/QB]

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Does everybody agree with this?
This sounds like the best (and simplest) way to change ATF but I want to make sure it won't damage anything.

 

[The Critic]

I wouldn't. If I was planning to change as much of the fluid as possible, I'd purge 4 qts at a time from the cooler line to be safe.

 

[JHZR2]

frankly, I wouldnt worry so much about drainingthe torque converter as I would about putting in a new filter and doing your best to replentish additives in the fluid. As I mentioned before, its not like thereare combustion byproducts or fuel dilution in ATF - maybe a bit of water, but that should settle to the bottom of the pan anyway, and youd get it out one way or another.

Id drop the pan and replace the filter every 2 years or 30k miles, and then just topside out some fluid and replace at some comfortable interval. If you only get 3.5 quarts out, but you know there is more in the pan - thats fine, so what? drive a bit then re-do. Costwise and probably even fluid-wise, its going to be less demanding than a flush machine. use a 12V instead of a vacuum pump if youre having trouble getting fluid out. You can get 12V oil pumps pretty darn cheap.

Of course, ifa TC drain plug exists, then great, wonderful, use it.. but if not, dont waste the effort, IMO.

JMH

 

[Nebraskan]

Get another Transmission pan, clean it up nice and drill and tap a drain hole in the low end and put in a drain plug. Then all you have to do is drain the pan, AFTER you have put in the new filter. It's a lot easier to drain the fluid and replace the filter in the future.

 

[Nebraskan]

"I have no doubt that Amsoil products are good. Unfortunately their marketing practices also have high lubricity."

Nebraskan says: On their LX 5-30 Motor Oil it says "API Certified" Couldn't do that without a lot of lawsuits.

[ July 23, 2006, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Nebraskan ]

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Nebraskan:
"I have no doubt that Amsoil products are good. Unfortunately their marketing practices also have high lubricity."

Nebraskan says: On their LX 5-30 Motor Oil it says "API Certified" Coudn't do that without a lot of lawsuits.

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Their XL oils are API certified.

 

[b_rubenstein]

quote:

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Originally posted by pbm:

quote:

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Originally posted by b_rubenstein:

It does not hurt the transmission to momentarily run the sump dry: the engine is only idling and there is no load on the transmission. There is no reason to try and keep up pouring fluid into the transmission as the fluid is being pumped out.

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Does everybody agree with this?
This sounds like the best (and simplest) way to change ATF but I want to make sure it won't damage anything. [/QB]

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Yep, Ford put this procedure in their factory service manuals so that the trannies self destruct so that they can put rebuilts in the customer's cars.

Even unDummy posted:

quote:

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Disconnect line
Pump tranny DRY
Add 10 quarts
Pump out the 10 just added
Reconnect line
Top off completely

This can be adapted to any transmission, and many have plenty of air space for an additional gallon or 2 so you don't have to waste time doing tiny increments.

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[Mike_dup1]

Licensee is authorized to display the API Service Symbol on the following products during the period of August 8, 2005 through August 8, 2006:


License No Company Name
0995 AMSOIL INC


Brand Name SAE Viscosity Grade Service Category Current Expiration Date
PCO 15W-40 CI-4/SL**August 8, 2006
XL 10W-30 SM/CF* August 8, 2006
XL 10W-40 SM/CF August 8, 2006
XL 5W-20 SM/CF* August 8, 2006
XL 5W-30 SM/CF* August 8, 2006
* Energy Conserving

** CI-4 PLUS

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

Double digit growth, and over 30 years of on the road use. Claims that are backed by lab testing and actual road use. Recognition by the industry.
Wow, that's slippery stuff!!!

AMSOIL ATF is not currently recommended for use in applications which require Dexron VI (or 6). This should change in the near future--though I don't know if there will be a separate blend or a revision of the current ATF.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by **** in Falls Church:
Double digit growth, and over 30 years of on the road use. Claims that are backed by lab testing and actual road use. Recognition by the industry.
Wow, that's slippery stuff!!!

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****, If anything I said about how Amsoil words their copy when their products haven't actually been approved by the organizations that control the specs isn't true, please point out my error.

I said their marketing was slippery, I didn't say it didn't move product.

 

[carock]

Where can I get a 12V oil pump? I have several uses for one.