Been using type F for years and the clutches last just fine. Always lots of metal for poor lubrication in the pan at the end of the season. Anyone ever try Royal Purple Syndraulic 32 in a Auto (off road or not) server duty automatic transmission? This is about a 1000+ hp dragster and 2 speed powerglide with 6000+ stall converter. Industrial application...lol
Race Powerglide oil R&D
- Thread starter quick_16
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The regular Type-F specs that I've seen weren't anything special.
Try using one of the synthetic type-f fluids:
Amsoil has the powershift/supershift fluids.
Redline has Racing ATF.
B&M Racing has the trickshift and synthetic trickshift.
Also, don't rule out heavy duty driveline or industryial type fluids. Try some JohnDeere/Allison/Caterpillar hydraulic fluids.
Try using one of the synthetic type-f fluids:
Amsoil has the powershift/supershift fluids.
Redline has Racing ATF.
B&M Racing has the trickshift and synthetic trickshift.
Also, don't rule out heavy duty driveline or industryial type fluids. Try some JohnDeere/Allison/Caterpillar hydraulic fluids.
MolaKule
Staff member
We have a synthetic type F we supply local racers. Contact us for details and lead time since we custom formulate it with a beafier AW add pack. It's a 9.0 cSt PAO formulation, verses the usual
I would say with that much horsepower in a PowerGluide some metal wear is inevitable. Do you rebuild the PG after a race or after so many races?
I would say with that much horsepower in a PowerGluide some metal wear is inevitable. Do you rebuild the PG after a race or after so many races?
ttt
Has no one tried hydraulic fluid???
From the MSDS sheets the density , and boiling range are the same for syn tranny oil but the lash pt COC is >380F vss >420F for full syn oil. MSDS does not list any viscosity measurement at all.
I like the idea of using a real oil but unsure how the friction will like it or the converter stall will change?????
Has no one tried hydraulic fluid???
From the MSDS sheets the density , and boiling range are the same for syn tranny oil but the lash pt COC is >380F vss >420F for full syn oil. MSDS does not list any viscosity measurement at all.
I like the idea of using a real oil but unsure how the friction will like it or the converter stall will change?????
MolaKule
Staff member
Before you screwup your PG send me a message at [email protected]:
The qustions you have to answer about ATF racing fluids are:
1. What is the viscosity of the hydraulic fluid? Is it compatible with the transmission design. Sure, ATF is a hydraulic fluid, but it is a specialized hydraulic fluid.
2. Does the fluid under consideration have the proper Anti-Wear (AW) additive package? You have to have special organic AW compounds.
3, Does the fluid under consideration have the proper Oxidation-Inhibition (OI) additive package? You have to have special organic OI compounds.
4. Does the fluid under consideration have the proper Friction Modification additive package? You have to have special organic FM compounds for ATF. For quick shifts at high horsepower, you want a type F - type of dynamic friction coefficieint.
5. What kind of base oil does it have. Most hydraulic fluids are made of Group I, II oils. Ours are made from Group III, IV, and V, depending on what you want and what your service severity requirements are.
6. If you change fluids after each race, then you don't need much rust and oxidation inhibition additives. Each additive affects the dynamic friction coefficieint.
[ April 03, 2005, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
The qustions you have to answer about ATF racing fluids are:
1. What is the viscosity of the hydraulic fluid? Is it compatible with the transmission design. Sure, ATF is a hydraulic fluid, but it is a specialized hydraulic fluid.
2. Does the fluid under consideration have the proper Anti-Wear (AW) additive package? You have to have special organic AW compounds.
3, Does the fluid under consideration have the proper Oxidation-Inhibition (OI) additive package? You have to have special organic OI compounds.
4. Does the fluid under consideration have the proper Friction Modification additive package? You have to have special organic FM compounds for ATF. For quick shifts at high horsepower, you want a type F - type of dynamic friction coefficieint.
5. What kind of base oil does it have. Most hydraulic fluids are made of Group I, II oils. Ours are made from Group III, IV, and V, depending on what you want and what your service severity requirements are.
6. If you change fluids after each race, then you don't need much rust and oxidation inhibition additives. Each additive affects the dynamic friction coefficieint.
I currently have 5-gallons in stock.
[ April 03, 2005, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Was looking more for tech help than a sales pitch, no offense. As in this will do this based on results we have seen or expect this based on lab testing etc... I do not feel I'm in danger of "screwing up my Glide". I build Race Transmissions and am certain I can replace the frictions in less than an hour if it came to that.
Was actually hoping to make contact with someone that has actually tried this csT@11C = 5.7 semi synthetic oil in a app like mine or close?????????
I had listed the fluid I planned to use Royal Purple Syndraulic 32.
Here's the spec sheet. Page two has many of the details you identified... RP Syn
We run our glide all year and most of the time just open, inspect and clean than put it back together at end of year. That's around 200 to 300 1/4 mile runs.
Was actually hoping to make contact with someone that has actually tried this csT@11C = 5.7 semi synthetic oil in a app like mine or close?????????
I had listed the fluid I planned to use Royal Purple Syndraulic 32.
Here's the spec sheet. Page two has many of the details you identified... RP Syn
We run our glide all year and most of the time just open, inspect and clean than put it back together at end of year. That's around 200 to 300 1/4 mile runs.
I think was mola was trying to say is although ATF is a form of hydralic fluid, regular hydralic fluid is not an ATF. it's not designed to be sheared in a torque converter at 6000 (10k?) rpm or lube clutch packs. there are special additives for these situations and he'll make an ATF specifically for your application. you wouldn't run gear oil in your engine instead of motor oil just because they are both oil.
if you think of the normal duty of a hydralic fluid it is run through a pump to pressurize it to run a slow moving hydralic ram or maybe a slow moving hydrostatic transmission on a tractor.
i don't care if you want to buy his stuff, but to me running hydralic fluid doesn't seem to be a suitable substitute. looking at the RP fluid, none of it's certifications are for any automatic transmission type duties.
if you think of the normal duty of a hydralic fluid it is run through a pump to pressurize it to run a slow moving hydralic ram or maybe a slow moving hydrostatic transmission on a tractor.
i don't care if you want to buy his stuff, but to me running hydralic fluid doesn't seem to be a suitable substitute. looking at the RP fluid, none of it's certifications are for any automatic transmission type duties.
quick_16,
I think the confusion could be coming from the (relatively) common useage of ATF in hydraulic systems.
It's a one way swap...ATF works in hydraulics, hydraulic oil doesn't necessarily work in Trannies.
If you don't want to follow Molakule's advice, I'd suggest that you run your application past Royal Purple, and seek their advice on the oil in question.
(Please post what they have to say).
I think the confusion could be coming from the (relatively) common useage of ATF in hydraulic systems.
It's a one way swap...ATF works in hydraulics, hydraulic oil doesn't necessarily work in Trannies.
If you don't want to follow Molakule's advice, I'd suggest that you run your application past Royal Purple, and seek their advice on the oil in question.
(Please post what they have to say).
Anything that meets Allison TES 295 is good stuff.
(especially if you have a garbage truck or city bus
)
http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/autoapp172/viewpage.jsp?ThisPage=3
(especially if you have a garbage truck or city bus
http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/autoapp172/viewpage.jsp?ThisPage=3
MolaKule
Staff member
Sorry dude, from the title of your question I thought you looking for a special racing fluid, and that's one of the things we do; racing fluid and R&D.
In the above thread I was simply trying to give you some facts about possible incompatibilities among hydraulic oils and true ATF's, as Shannow and Tom SLick had commented as well.
Not too many people blindly put an unknown hydrualic fluid in their AT.
You didn't say what brand or supplier. There are as many different types, viscosities, and friction mods for hydraulic fluids as there are parts in your tranny. In my experience, a 5.7 cSt semi-synthetic oil is much too thin for racing, and since you haven't had it analyzed, you really don't know what's in it.
Again my apologies, that wasn't clear to me. Syndraulic 32 simply means a hydraulic fluid with a viscosity of ISO 32 or about a 10 weight.
No offense taken. I am an educator as well as owning an oil business, so if I can help edumacate the masses and maybe sell a quart, hey, what the heck.
I am using a dino Mobil ATF/CAT Hydraulic oil blend in my daily driver Caprice, at the recommendation of the tranny builder. Not quite as radical an application as yours 4500lbs. 2800stall, 4L60E, 320hp, but 20-25K a year including some towing has to count as some abuse too. It seems to have worked well but I have a sample on the desk next to me waiting to go out to Blackstone and Terry, and unless they tell me it is a miracle brew and to keep using it, I will be trying Mola's product next.
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