Spongy brake pedal... Long and HELP

[Brian Miller_dup1]

Our 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe has always had a "spongy" brake pedal. It has never been firm like all other cars we've had. Hyundai said this was no problem, because my wife complained about it on the test drive.

Well, 2 years later and 30K, it needed new front brake pads. I put them on today and the spongy pedal was worse. I installed my speed bleeders and bleed the brake system. Still VERY spongy. By the way, no air came out while I was bleeding.

On a hard stop, the pedal will go to the floor if you really push it (the car still stops). It would never go this far before.

I'm thinking there might be something wrong with the master cylinder? It doesn't have ABS. I'm going to try to get it into Hyundai this week to have them look at it (it is still under warranty).

I was just wondering if anyone on here had any ideas what else it might be. I would rather fix it myself if it's something easy instead of waiting for the dealer to get it done.

Thanks for all the help,
Brian

 

[doitmyself]

Brian,

If you google Hyundai Santa Fe soft brakes and dig through a few pages, there are numerous reviews mentioning "soft brakes". One said that it got better after a few thousand miles on new pads.

It seems that they went to a 4 disc, ABS system. That tells me that your design was flawed and they corrected it.

Go rear end someone, then make Hyundai deal with it. Seriously, you might want to research some TSB's to see if this is a safety issue.

 

[mechtech]

The pedal WILL be more spongy after new pads are on it - they re not seated yet.

 

[Brian Miller_dup1]

I just did a search on Alldata.com. There was a safty recall in Dec-04 for a Brake HECU reprogramming?

I'm going to call tomorrow and see if this is the problem. I'm not sure what a HECU is?

Also, we never got a letter about this. I guess it's only a recall if you call and complain about the brakes!

Thanks for all the help,
Brian

 

[unDummy]

HECU is the hydraulic electronic control unit. Thats engineering babble for ABS/TCS/insert acronyms here/.... I don't see reprogramming getting rid of the sponginess.

Quality brake pads might give you a little more initial 'bite'. I hope that you didn't use cheapo pads.

Also, did you bleed all brakes or just the front with the pad replacement? what type of rear brakes do you have? what fluid? what tire bleed order?

Since this is the nature of the beast, a partial remedy might be better fluid, better pads, braided brake lines(custom made?), adjusted shoes(if rear drum), or checking to find a compatible better/bigger master cyclinder.

 

[labman]

If the brake pedal is spongy, something is giving, usually air somewhere. Have you bled the master cylinder? Once the air is out of it, you can check it by holding the pedal down firmly, and see if it slowly sinks. If so, the solution is to rebuilt or replace it. Unless some of the metal is flexing, it shouldn't cause a soft pedal.

The least little dirt in a Speedy Bleeder, and it is going to let air back in. I would put regular bleed screws in and and use the down once, open the screw, close it, let up, and then down once again technique.

It is also possible they have skimped on the metal. Anything from the pedal arm itself to the calipers could be flexing. Don't know if you can find beefier after market parts to fit or not.

 

[theguru]

My son fitted a brake stopper on his car which made quite a differnce to brake feel. Basically a bracket to stop the master cylinder from moving on the firewall when the brake is pushed. Unfortunately this was not on a Santa Fe.
Aslo braided lines will assist. Just make sure they are the approved type. Not worth the risk having no brakes if they split or leak.

Have you looked on the Santa Fe forum?

 

[99]

If I didn't like the pedal feel on the test drive I wouldn't have bought it. Just my opinion though. Take it to the dealer and let them figure it out because you don't want to take any chances with the brake system. I can't believe you waited this long to do something about it.

 

[Brian Miller_dup1]

Problem has been fixed, and I'm $100.00 poorer

They did treat us really good. They ended up not finishing on Saturday and gave us a loaner for the weekend, NO CHARGE. Even with all the work they did, they still only charged for 1 hour of labor.

Turns out that I was bleeding the brakes wrong. On a Hyundai Santa Fe, you MUST have the engine RUNNING! Then bleed passenger rear, drivers front, drivers back, then passenger front.

The tech was really nice and explained to me what he had done. By bleeding with the car off and the longest to shortest brake line I was sucking air into the front brakes?

You learn something new every day

Brian

 

[labman]

Some years ago as I was finishing up rebuilding the calipers on my 92 Grand Am, I asked my son to go look up bleeding the brakes in the shop manual. He said, ''Dad, you have done this before, you know how.'' I said, ''Not on this car''. I figure there is nothing on my 77 Chevy LUV that Henry Ford couldn't understand and fix, except the digital tune cassette stereo, and it is a retrofit. I don't try to do much on newer cars without reading the shop manual first.

 

[sky jumper]

Quote:

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Problem has been fixed, and I'm $100.00 poorer

Turns out that I was bleeding the brakes wrong. On a Hyundai Santa Fe, you MUST have the engine RUNNING! Then bleed passenger rear, drivers front, drivers back, then passenger front.

The tech was really nice and explained to me what he had done. By bleeding with the car off and the longest to shortest brake line I was sucking air into the front brakes?

You learn something new every day

---

is this true of all Hyundais? (a 2003 elentra for example)

 

[unDummy]

Many FWD/AWD use the crisscross X-method and not the ol' school longest-shortest Z-method bleed.

This is something you'll need to verify with the factory service manual.

Doesn't Kia/Hyundai have the factory manuals online for their vehicles?

 

[cmhj]

Quote:

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Doesn't Kia/Hyundai have the factory manuals online for their vehicles?

---

Here's Kia.

http://www.kiatechinfo.com/viewer/default.asp?group=shop

 

[White 03]

Someone help me out here.

Considering the Z pattern vs. the X pattern: I suppose if the car in question used a system that paired the back brakes together on one half of the master cylinder and the fronts together on the other half of the master cylinder then I suppose I am to use the old Z pattern and if the system is divided diagionally then I use the X pattern. But what difference would it make seeing as the Z pattern would bleed the longest line in each half first on both systems?

For whatever reason,I have always used the Z method and bled the longest line first. But really I can't see how air bubbles get into a line not being bled anyway. One of those things I just do as I have been told.

To add to my confusion I got my Accord book out and they recomend 1)Front left, 2)front right, 3)rear left, 4)rear right.