Royal Purple Synchromesh, Pennzoil Synchromesh, Redline MTL

[rossn2]

Okay, here's the question;
Does Royal Purple Synchromax meet the GL-4 specs called for in the Dodge NV 5600 transmission (DC part Manual Fluid 4874464). There's conflicting information on the Royal Purple site. I believe the RP does not meet the GL-4 specs, is too thin of an oil, with near ATF qualities, for this transmission?

I know that Pennzoil/Quakerstate Synchromesh and the Redline MTL meet the requirements.

[ February 23, 2005, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: rossn2 ]

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

---

Okay, here's the question;
Does Royal Purple Synchromax meet the GL-4 specs called for in the Dodge NV 5600 transmission (DC part Manual Fluid 4874464). There's conflicting information on the Royal Purple site. I believe the RP does not meet the GL-4 specs, is too thin of an oil, with near ATF qualities, for this transmission?

I know that Pennzoil/Quakerstate Synchromesh and the Redline MTL meet the requirements.

---

Look at the viscosity specifications on the Product Data Specification page.

If the fluid doesn't meet a viscosity spec of 9.0 cSt@100 C, then it's not synchromesh equivalent.

Redline MTL is a 11.5 cSt fluid, RP is a 7.5 cSt fluid.

GL4 refers mainly to the Extreme Pressure additive level in the fluid.

Ours SynchroGlide does meet the synchromesh specifications and is a GL4 spec:

http://www.specialtyformulations.com/index_files/Page2255.htm

 

[rossn2]

I find this interesting: Here's an email I sent to Royal Purple this morning:

Under the RP Synchromax you state that the fluid meets the requirements of Dodge Part Number Manual Fluid 4874464 for the Manual 6spd NV5600 transmission. The DC part number is for a GL-4 requirement fluid. I believe RP does not meet the requirements and someone has made a mistake on your website.
I would like to turn your attention to the viscosity specifications on the Product Data Specification page.
If the fluid doesn't meet a viscosity spec of 9.0 cSt@100 C, then it's not DC 4874464 synchromesh equivalent.

Royal Purple response:

That’s not a mistake on our web site. Royal Purple Synchromax is what we recommend as a replacement fluid for Synchromesh or DC 4874464.
Royal purple is not trying to build the exact fluid as the DC4874464. Royal Purple manufactures replacement fluids that offer better performance and protection than what you will get with an OE fill.
FYI
9.0 cSt@ 100C the DC 4874464 and 7.7 cSt@ 100C RP Synchromax fall in the 80wt SAE gear oil viscosity classification.

This is scary. They state that the RP offers better performance and protection than what you will get with an OE fill, but yet their oil doesn't meet the specifications?

 

[rossn2]

Royal Purple response:

" If Royal Purple recommends a fluid for a transmission and the transmission fails and it is proven that the lubricant failed thus causing the transmission failure then yes we will replace the transmission.
This has never happened.
You do understand that an 80wt. SAE gear oil range from 7 cSt @ 100C to 10 cSt @ 100C
And you can have an 80Wt gear oil in a GL-4 or GL-5 rating at that wt.
What I am saying is that Royal Purple Synchromax exceeds the performance specs your transmission requires. Just because the cSt @ 100C is not 9 has NOTHING to do with the performance aspects of the product."

I'm confused?

 

[MolaKule]

I do not doubt RP's declaration that it may work and I don't want to get involved in he-said, she said-type discussion.

Emailing manuf. and irritating them off doesn't win any friends.

The original factory SynchroMesh fluids averaged 9.3 cSt@100 C. So there was some engineering reason the factory spec fluids had that viscosity.

When we developed SynchroGlide, we made sure the total formulation was between 9.0 to 9.5 cSt.

The EP package was just a hair past the GL4 levels and the special friction modifiers were developed for optimum synchro engagement.

If you already have the RP stuff in your tranny, sample the fluid, run a baseline, and then sample every 10k for trending.

Then run it against ours and note the wear levels of each at 10K intervals for the same type of driving scenario.

RP Synchromesh sounds very similar to our MTFGlide.

 

[rossn2]

I run the Redline MTL in mine. The only oils I have found that meet the specs are the MTL or the Pennzoil/Quakerstate Synchromesh, or your's.

Amsoil recommends 10w-30 engine oil in the trans. RP recommends the Syncromax. Just because someone recommends an oil doesn't necessarily mean it meets the Vehicle manufacturer's specs.

Thanks for you input/insight!

 

[MolaKule]

Just remember, RL's MTL is 2.5 cSt above the viscosity of the Synchromesh factory fluids. RL's MTL is closer in viscosity to Honda's MT fluid than the factory Synchromesh.

I know that for a fact since I do my research very carefully.

Here are three Major facts that I attempt to impress on everyone purchasing MTL's (and these comments are in at least three other threads on MT's as well):

1. You need to have to have the correct fluid viscosity (thickness) for proper lubrication films on the gearing and bearings, and to quiet gearing noise.

2. The proper level of Extreme Pressure and Anti-Wear Additives to protect gearing teeth and bearings. GL4 is minimum for most modern transmissions.

3. The correct amount and type of friction modifier for synchronizer engagement. There are currently three types of synchronizerers:
A. Solid brass cones and locker rings;
B. Sintered metal cones and seats made of moly, brass, zinc, and other "softer" metals;
C. Carbon composite synchronizers.

Our friction modifiers handle all three types equally well.

 

[Tremo]

The folks at RP told me they made Synchromax for manual boxen that call for ATF. I have a WC-T5 in my Camaro that calls for ATF. I've been using a 50/50 mix of M1 ATF and Synchromax. Next time I drain/refill the thing I'll probably go with 100% Synchromax, or maybe Molekewl's stuff. The guys over on the Thirdgen board were pretty adamant about using the thinner ATF type oils in the WC-T5.

If your Dodge specifies ATF, then you'd be OK with one of the Synthetic ATFs or one of the aftermarket "equivalents" like Synchromax or MoleKewl's stuff. If it specifies something else, pay attention to what they are telling you.

 

[Whimsey]

I have a 2002 F-150 that uses ATF in it's manual tranny. The factory Mercon fluid shifted like sh*t, whether it was cold or warm outside. I replaced it with Schaeffer's #204S Mercon/Dexron III ATF. It shifts a lot better in cold and warm temps but it's still "clunky", especially in the warmer temps. I ordered and have MolaKule's SynchroGlide tranny fluid. It's more viscous than the ATF but not so much that it shouldn't work in the cold temps, especially since it's totally synthetic. I'm hoping this will help with the shifting quality and with the deteriorating shifting quality when the weather is warmer than the dead of winter. If that doesn't work I'll go to the next viscous level of his tranny fluids. Now if only it would stop snowing so I can put in the SynchroGlide

. By the way MolaKule's company offers a manual tranny fluid for trannies that require ATF. It's the same viscosity as ATF but with all the good additives to protect your tranny that ATF DOESN'T have.

Whimsey

 

[ecu50]

this is very interesting since holcomb motorsports sent me royal purple synchromax when i bought my tremec tko 500 from them which is a gm style tranny. if that tranny falls apart because of that fluid someone is buyin me a new one. im definetly switching to the synchroglide as soon as i get a chance