synthetic gear oil and balk ring synchromesh

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quote:

Originally posted by widman:
Delo works well in a lot of transmissions although I pulled it out of my 4Runner and put in a 75W-90 because it was harder to shift at low temps with the 80W-90. I wish the Delo came in a 75W-90.

Yes, a 75w-90 high quality dino would be nice. What did you use? Valvoline had to add this:

HYDROTREATED NEUTRAL OIL C15-30 72623-86-0 28.0- 38.0%

to their dino gear oil to get 75w-90. I'm not sure how this affects the robustness of the gear oil. I don't get the impression around here that valvoline is the greatest gear oil.

quote:

Originally posted by widman:
The Swepco 201 is new to me. There is a rumor that there is a Porche somewhere in the country, but I haven't seen it. I'd be curious to see an analisis of the Swepco 201. Might give us an idea.

The 201 is also an 80w-90. Swepco makes very good products, but the ~$50/gal I'm seeing seems to be about as much as you can pay for a gear oil (except maybe NEO), and we're not talking about an ester base here, just a dino with a good additive package. I'm sure it shifts at least as bad as the delo 80w-90 in the cold.

quote:

Originally posted by widman:
The Delo is for top-off only on LSD. At one time one of their technical people told me it was good for complete fill, and the Spanish version of their spec sheet said so, but when I put it in my 4Runner it gave grinding noises on U-turns. That's when I noticed the difference between English and Spanish spec sheets and questioned them. Their reponse was NO complete fills on LSD, and they corrected the Spanish sheet.

Thank you for clarifying that, widman.

Does anyone have an opinion on the theory that synthetic + LSD additive causes the problem?:

quote:

Originally posted by KobaltBlau:
A few people have had bad results with regular OTC small container Mobil 1 75W-90 (contains friction modifier), slow shifting and grinding. Perhaps this is the combination of the friction modifier and the synthetic. I would be wary of using a synthetic that already has a friction modifier in it due to others' results. However, something like the redline 75w-90ns or the Mobil 1 SHC 75w-90 with a careful dose of friction modifier might work well. As I mentioned above, one guy adds 10% Dow Corning Molykote M to 75w-90ns redline and doesn't have LSD chatter. A single quart of Molykote M is $40 though!

 
Ed, I believe I found what you are referring to, but It says:

"suitable for top-off of limited slip differentials" (but does not mention refill) as I mentioned above.

If it works well for you, great, but I think widman's post above is accurate.
 
The specs clearly state that it contains a limited slip additive. Yes, suitable for top-off, as in it won't dilute the additives in your current oil and cause problems with the limited slip. That's the way I read it. I know it has worked fine in several limited slip differentials that I have owned.

Just trying to get to the bottom of this too, as I know it has the proper friction properties for your syncros.
smile.gif


Ed
 
The Swepco 201 is new to me. There is a rumor that there is a Porche somewhere in the country, but I haven't seen it. I'd be curious to see an analisis of the Swepco 201. Might give us an idea.
Delo works well in a lot of transmissions although I pulled it out of my 4Runner and put in a 75W-90 because it was harder to shift at low temps with the 80W-90. I wish the Delo came in a 75W-90.
The Delo is for top-off only on LSD. At one time one of their technical people told me it was good for complete fill, and the Spanish version of their spec sheet said so, but when I put it in my 4Runner it gave grinding noises on U-turns. That's when I noticed the difference between English and Spanish spec sheets and questioned them. Their reponse was NO complete fills on LSD, and they corrected the Spanish sheet.
 
Here is a bit more info that may help with your oil choice. It appears that Subaru uses balk ring syncros, which would explain why they are somewhat fussy about their oil. That is what the part was called on the invoice that I got this afternoon. I had been running Royal Purple Max Gear 75W-90, which worked extremely well, (except for 5th). This may be a good choice for the Porshe transmissions too, as it is a GL4-GL5 rated fluid. It now has the new Subaru branded 75w-90 full synthetic oil, that seems to work fine in a properly sorted transmission.

I picked up the car tonight, and it turns out that the transmission did not have the bad syncros at all. I was wondering about that, as 1st-4th worked perfectly. The throw-out bearing assembly and hub/sleeve were damaged and misaligned, which caused damage to the 5th gear "slider" (shift fork?) which caused the syncro damage. They replaced the entire clutch and throw-out assembly, the 5th gear set, and 5th gear syncro. All is well again. the transmission shifts better that it ever has, through all the gears. It was covered 100% by warrantee.

Ed

[ August 18, 2004, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: edhackett ]
 
I strongly believe that the subarus still have borg warner type syncros (nobody uses balk ring anymore), but they are clearly sensitive and I think they want the same gear lube properties as the porsche synchros in the 901 and 915 transaxles do.

Ed, in the section of the delo site where they have data sheets on the gear lubricants, I find these two lines:

CHEVRON DELO® GEAR LUBRICANTS ESI ENGLISH CPS224503 UNITED STATES 6698
CHEVRON DELO® GEAR LUBRICANTS ESI ENGLISH CPS224504 UNITED STATES 6698

unfortunately I can't link to them directly, but both PDFs say they are suitable for "top-off" of limited slips, but do not say they have an additive or are suitable for "refill". In fact, I can't tell the difference between the two PDFs. Am I looking at something different than you are?
 
I think you are right about the Subaru syncros. I took a look at the one gear that they had in stock tonight, and it clearly had the brass gear of the Borg-Warner type. I was confused as they do refer to the cones as "baulks".

I did some poking around on the Chevron site and did come up with two different PDS's for Delo gear lube. The one dated November 2003 is as you state, no mention of a limited slip additive. If you follow the link to the data from the page in my original post, being sure to select US as the region, it will take you to a PDS dated May 24, 2004. That one does mention the LS additive. Selecting any other region seem to take you to the older PDS.

Here is the partial text of the FEATURES section of the 24 May 2004 PDS:

"Chevron Delo Gear Lubricants ESI are premium grade, multipurpose gear lubricants. They are formulated with ISOSYN® base stocks and compounded with a unique extreme pressure additive utilizing an inorganic borate compound. They also contain a limited slip additive and oxidation, corrosion, rust, and foam inhibitors."

Ed

[ August 19, 2004, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: edhackett ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by edhackett:
I think you are right about the Subaru syncros. I took a look at the one gear that they had in stock tonight, and it clearly had the brass gear of the Borg-Warner type. I was confused as they do refer to the cones as "baulks".

Yes, I guess the "split ring" mechanism is the key part.

quote:

Originally posted by edhackett:
I did some poking around on the Chevron site and did come up with two different PDS's for Delo gear lube. The one dated November 2003 is as you state, no mention of a limited slip additive. If you follow the link to the data from the page in my original post, being sure to select US as the region, it will take you to a PDS dated May 24, 2004. That one does mention the LS additive. Selecting any other region seem to take you to the older PDS.

Here is the partial text of the FEATURES section of the 24 May 2004 PDS:

"Chevron Delo Gear Lubricants ESI are premium grade, multipurpose gear lubricants. They are formulated with ISOSYN® base stocks and compounded with a unique extreme pressure additive utilizing an inorganic borate compound. They also contain a limited slip additive and oxidation, corrosion, rust, and foam inhibitors."


Ed, thank you for clarifiying that, I see that now. I was not selecting my region before, just selecting "Product Data" and clicking go. That PDF still says that it is suitable for "top-off" and not refill, but yes it clearly says it has a limited slip additive. Different diffs need different amounts of additive, so perhaps that is why. It seems possible that even if the Delo has a relatively small amount of additive it works well in your LSDs, but that's just a guess.

I talked with Dave at Red Line oils about the original topic of this thread, and he was quite helpful. Unfortunately I won't be able to transcribe my notes from the conversation until tomorrow or sunday. Anybody who is interested should send me a PM if I forget to do it in the next week.

Andy
 
Has anyone tried Schaffers products in these transmissions?? I can not imagine Schaffers not working well!!
 
The different spec sheet listings are for the 80w90 and the 85w140, (product numbers are listed) - although they are both on the same sheet. They are listed separately so you can find them by product # too.
There may be a product change, but I don't think so. The English version goes on to say it is for top-off, while the Spanish version once again goes on to say it is for complete fill. I just wrote to them to clear it up again.
It actually works extremely well in a lot of transmissions and differencials. I lowered the temperature in Volvo Truck transmissions from 94C to 56C with it.
 
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