redline MT-90 & MTL mix.

[berge]

2004 toyota echo hatchback. 5spd. manual. very, very notchy gearbox, especially cold. would like to go synthetic and have narrowed down to redline products.
manual calls for 75W90 GL-4 or 5.
from redlines website, the appropriate fluid for me is MT-90.
alot of people are talking about mixing MT-90 and MTL 50/50 to get much better cold weather shifting.
I understand the benefits of mixing the lighter MTL, but, is this safe for the gearbox?

 

[JohnBrowning]

Their are so many people that use this mix that it is almost time tested. Dave recomended MTL for my Camry. I have not used either one in it yet. I plan on useing the MTL/MT90 mix. It has worked well in a lot of applications like the MR2.

THe notchy shift feel willbe improved but can not be elimanated. This is common to most cable shifted front drive transmissions. While I realy like the feel of Toyota's rear wheel drive transmissions their cable shifted fwd trans have horrable shift feel!

 

[MolaKule]

It is safe for the gearbox since the MTL and MT90 have the same Extreme Pressure and Anti-wear additive package, just different viscosites.

If Toyota is specifiying a 5W10W30 type oil, then MTL may be best lube. If they are specifying a 75W90 type GL4 gear lube, then MT90 may be the best.

From my own experiences with 5-speeds, the MTL was was still too notchy, but using the 50/50 mix, it smoothed out with no notchiness.

 

[berge]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MolaKule:

From my own experiences with 5-speeds, the MTL was was still too notchy, but using the 50/50 mix, it smoothed out with no notchiness.

---

what kind of car?

 

[MolaKule]

S-10's, Nissans, Audi's. Not all mine, but found that the mix worked well in most.

 

[Bror Jace]

I'm using an 80/20 MT-90/MTL mix in my '03 Nissan Spec-V 6-speed.

I'm not entirely happy with this as some shifts have an initial clashing feel that is unsettling. However the factory oil (which some here believe to be Castrol Syntorq 75W85) had really poor cold weather performance.

Basically, I haven't found anything to make this thing shift like my Hondas.

I'm gonna have a sample tested 6-8 months from now to see how the wear is. I tend to keep my vehicles a while and/or sell to friends or family.

--- Bror Jace

 

[berge]

exactly. I have had nothing but hondas before and expected shift quality on the toyota to be comparable.

very disappointed so far.

why did you do a 80/20 as opposed to a 50/50 mix?

 

[MolaKule]

Not answering for Bror, but I suspect that Bror wanted a higher viscosity of GL4 in his tranny.

Look at the viscosities in this VOA thread.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000104

He probably has a viscosity closer to 13.25 cSt with his 80/20 mix.

 

[Spector]

I switched from the OEM to Amsoil then to a 50-50 mix of the MTL and MT-90 in my 6 spd. Like night and day as to shifting with the mix. Highly recommend it.

 

[berge]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spector:
I switched from the OEM to Amsoil then to a 50-50 mix of the MTL and MT-90 in my 6 spd. Like night and day as to shifting with the mix. Highly recommend it.

---

what kind of vehicle/oil?
what were the cold shifting characteristics of OEM/ Amsoil/ Redline/ Redline mix?

 

[MolaKule]

berge,

Spector said he first used the manufacturer's lube, then used an Amsoil lube, then the Redline MTL/MT90 50/50 mix. He used a succession of oils to determine what was right for him.

He did NOT mix all three.

[ February 09, 2004, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[Spector]

quote:

---

Originally posted by berge:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
[qb] berge,I got that. I wanted to know what the cold shifting characteristics of each oil was. how big an improvement did amsoil make compared to factory fill? was the amsoil mix better than the redline?

---

Mitsubishi 3000 VR-4 6 Spd using Amsoil 10W30 in crankcase.

transmission was very clunky in shift to 2nd and then 3rd, year round until fluid warmed up but more noticeable in winter. Even the owner's manual said to be watchful of this hard shifting when cold. The Amsoil 75W90 helped but it would still grind and be clunky in the two gears until the fluid warmed up, 5-10 miles of driving, not as bad with Amsoil but still there. The mix basically cured the cold shifting clunk and occasional grind. The onwers club for my vehicle is where I first learned of this mix so decided to try it.

There was no Amsoil mix. It was OEM, then drained and filled with Amsoil then drained and filled with the mix. This transmission and transfer case specifies a GL-4 which the Redline fluids are. Amsoils selection of GL-4 (in terms of weights) is limited.

 

[berge]

thanks.
I contacted redline. they specifically do not approve of the 'mix'. gonna try mt-90.

 

[berge]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MolaKule:
berge,

Spector said he first used the manufacturer's lube, then used an Amsoil lube, then the Redline MTL/MT90 50/50 mix. He used a succession of oils to determine what was right for him.

He did NOT mix all three.

---

I got that. I wanted to know what the cold shifting characteristics of each oil was. how big an improvement did amsoil make compared to factory fill? was the amsoil mix better than the redline?

 

[Spector]

quote:

---

Originally posted by berge:
thanks.
I contacted redline. they specifically do not approve of the 'mix'. gonna try mt-90.

---

WOW. Their attorneys must have gotten into the CYA stage of life. A year ago they did recommend the mix! Doesn't matter, it works great for many people

Ah, what I would give for consistency of information from any organization/company!!!!!!!!!

 

[berge]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spector:

quote:

---

Originally posted by berge:
thanks.
I contacted redline. they specifically do not approve of the 'mix'. gonna try mt-90.

---

WOW. Their attorneys must have gotten into the CYA stage of life. A year ago they did recommend the mix! Doesn't matter, it works great for many people

Ah, what I would give for consistency of information from any organization/company!!!!!!!!!

---

I e-mailed them with the question. Assuming this is their official position. Who from redline told you the mix was approved?

 

[Spector]

quote:

---

Originally posted by berge:
Who from redline told you the mix was approved?

---

Your kidding right? I don't keep responses for more then a day or so from anyone and nothing over a year old. I honestly have no idea of who it was.

To play it safe go with the MT-90 and if that doesn't do the trick try the mix or even plain ole MTL. Is it the mix they do not approve of or using any MTL in this application?

 

[TooSlick]

Viscosity @ temp .....-40C......+40C.....+100C


Series 2000........35,000 Cp....110 Cst...15.7 Cst
75w-90:

MT-90:.............32,000 Cp.....90 Cst...14.7 Cst

MTL:...............16,000 Cp.....51 Cst...10.5 Cst


There is no magic to this mixing stuff ....Even by itself, MT-90 is marginally thinner than most synthetic, 75w-90 gear lubes at low temps. If you cut it by 50% with the MTL formulation, it's much thinner. If you plot the +40C and +100C viscosity data and draw a line though it with a "French Curve", you can extrapolate what the viscosity would be down to perhaps 0F pretty closely ....

The trick is to add just enough of the MTL to thin out the MT-90, while still keeping it an SAE 75w-90 grade. That way you are sticking to the letter of the law as far as the OEM requirement....

TS

 

[berge]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spector:

quote:

---

Originally posted by berge:
Who from redline told you the mix was approved?

---

Your kidding right? I don't keep responses for more then a day or so from anyone and nothing over a year old. I honestly have no idea of who it was.

To play it safe go with the MT-90 and if that doesn't do the trick try the mix or even plain ole MTL. Is it the mix they do not approve of or using any MTL in this application?

---

I meant, did you e-mail their tech line or did an area rep/salesperson tell you this.

I'm gonna try the mt-90 initially. they specifically DO NOT approve of any mtl going into that gearbox. only mt90.

 

[berge]

here is the e-mail response.

">hello,
>2004 toyota echo hatchback. 5 spd manual. vehicle is a daily
>driver in toronto. very cold winters.
>very notchy gearbox, especially on cold mornings.
>manual calls for 75W90 GL-4 or 5.
>would like to try redline MT-90 which seems to be the recommended
>oil for my application.
>alot of people have mentioned to me that they have mixed 50/50 MTL
>and MT-90 and the cold shifting has improved considerably.
>is this safe to do or should I stick with straight MT-90?
>
>thank you.
>

In your Toyota where a 75W90 viscsoity is called for I would
recommend the MT-90, the blend is primarily used in applications
designed for and specifying a 75W85 viscsoity, a little lower than
your transaxle calls for.
I would expect the MT-90 to offer good low temperature shiftability
in your transaxle.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil"