Cavalier 5 speed fluid level

[labman]

Does anyone know if I should be able to see fluid in my 02 Cavalier 5
speed? Right after I bought it new, I told the dealer's service
department that I couldn't see any fluid in it. I was told they couldn't
check it, and I had no business messing with stuff like that. Any
problems would be covered under warranty as long as I left it alone.

The owners' manual says it is not necessary to check it. It will not
lose fluid unless there is a leak.

 

[timzak]

I'm not familiar with the car or the tranny, but in general, manuals have a fill and drain plug on the side of the tranny. At least on my Mustang, you check the level by opening the fill plug and sticking your finger in. The fluid should be level with the bottom of the fill plug. Maybe yours is the same, maybe not. Check if there is a Hayne's or Chilton's manual (usually at Pep Boys or AutoZone) for your year and model and it should give you the answer.

 

[MolaKule]

Our daughter's former Cavalier had the fill/inspection hole near the firewall on the drivers side. Look for a flat spot on the transaxle at the rear of transaxle.

The fluid level was like an inch below the fill/inspection hole.

[ June 10, 2003, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[labman]

Thanks Molakule. That sounds more like the one on my old Grand
AM, except that you lifted a lever and pulled out the plug with a
little dipstick on it. They would both be part way
down being at the back. That was a good made in Muncie box, as
opposed to the Getrag in the Cavalier. Right in the top of the
transaxle is a big red knob with a #$*$%^ pictograph of a gear with
a line of waves on the inside. You unscrew it, and you can see
about an inch down into the transmission. If you added fluid until
you could see it, the transmission would be almost full. Of the 6
manual shift transmissions and 5 rear axles, this would be the first
gear box filled to the top. Maybe I am answering my own question.
The owners' manual explicitly says you do not need to check it.
The service manager said don't add fluid. It has gone over 20K in a
year and a half with no problems. Maybe I need to let well enough
alone.

I planed to post a link to where I bought the shop manual for my old
truck to counter the suggestion of buying a Chiltons or Hayes book.
I have a Chiltons for my truck, and time after time what I was
needing wasn't there. Or with the schematic, it was so reduced I
couldn't read it. They aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
After reading
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=000017;p=1#000000,
I don't think I am allowed to do that. I did post it to the favorite
links forum under shop manuals. I guess we all need to follow the
rules, or leave. I am glad somebody had posted that link here even
if I can't pass it on directly.

 

[MolaKule]

I see what you're saying.

On my daughter's Cavalier, the tranny dipstick was low and to the rear on the slightly tilted
transaxle, so filling it to within an inch of the hole would have placed the fluid level just below the transaxle's center water-line, where it should have been.

 

[Bror Jace]

labman: "I told the dealer's service
department that I couldn't see any fluid in it. I was told they couldn't check it, and I had no business messing with stuff like that."

and

"The owners' manual explicitly says you do not need to check it. The service manager said don't add fluid. It has gone over 20K in a year and a half with no problems. Maybe I need to let well enough alone."

Maybe certain manufacturers and their scummy and/or clueless dealers need to have a 1" combination wrench applied "briskly" to the backsides of their heads?

Why do they engineer things so poorly/marginally and then try to take the witless "lifetime fill" approach to maintenance and/or discourage the owners of their products from trying to take better-than-average care of their cars?

We all know what gear shearing does to a lubricant. We all know that it's best to change tranny oil regularly ... even when it's new to flush the break-in residue out of the case.

I really hate crap like this.

--- Bror Jace

[ June 13, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Bror Jace ]

 

[labman]

The best thing I can say for the dealership is that it recently changed
hands. Maybe it will be getting some of the hands on management
it has lacked for a long time.

Contrast the way RealWing's Honda dealership is helping on the oil
filter quality.

The transmission is a German Getrag. As I said in my reply to
Molakule, the made in Muncie one in my Grand Am had a nice
dipstick to keep track of the fluid. The Getrag does have drain and
fill holes, just add the measured amount and hope it is right.

The Grand Am transmission was still working fine when I traded it
at 180K with the original fluid.

 

[cousincletus]

The 5 speed in the Cavalier seems to be a good one, although not American made

. I also have a 2002 model with the 5 speed and the dealer told me the same thing. However, I asked a independent mechanic and he told me that there are two allen head plugs on the transmission to drain and refill/check level. I am assuming that you can also add oil through the red plug in the top. I looked and sure enough, they were there. You have to jack the car up and get under it to see the plugs, but with the car in the air, they are easy to get at. The transmission takes 1.8 quarts of Dexron III ATF fluid. The mechanic told me to change it every 30,000 miles, even though GM doesn't recommend doing this service. The reason why auto mfgs. do this is because they want to make claims of having the least ammount of routine maintenance and also for EPA reasons. BTW, my first Cavalier went over 150,000 miles before I traded it on the original fluid with no problems. If you can't find the plugs, please post back and I'll help you locate them. I am a big fan of the Chevy Cavalier. I have owned three of them over the last 20 years and have had very good service out of them.

 

[labman]

Thanks Cuz. For now, I have concluded no gear box would have
fluid clear up to where you could see it in that plug. I do remember
one Allen head plug a little lower. I may look around some more.

Strange GM would begrudge the transmission the 1.8 quarts of fluid
while insisting on the engine getting 5.8 quarts every 3,000 miles.

 

[Bror Jace]

labman, I don't doubt that some manual trannies will survive past the 150,000 mile mark with the original oil in them, but this is simply abuse ... even if it is planned this way by the manufacturer.

'cuz, I'm glad you found the plugs ... and 30,000 miles is a reasonable interval for a gearbox oil.

I think you are right about wanting to claim low maintenance costs ... but this is just silly. Would making the plugs easier to see, etc ... and recommending 60K normal/30K severe service intervals really change much in the grand sceme of things?

A manula tranny oil change is so darn cheap to do!

-- Bror Jace

 

[cousincletus]

Labman, which engine do you have? My 2.2 pushrod engine (base engine) only takes four quarts to fill it with a PF-47 filter. I will double check the amount. Maybe the dipstick is wrong. Don't know about the Ecotech. It does seem like auto mfgs. are getting the "throwaway" mentality. With more frequent fluid changes, the cars will last longer and you will have to buy a new one less often

.

 

[labman]

I have the Ecotec. The owners' manual says 5.8 quarts of oil for the
engine. Five quarts brings it up past the max mark on the dipstick.
There was a thread here aa month or 2 ago on trusting the dipstick.
there were no conclusive posts.

This is the first American made engine I have had that called for
more than 4. My Jap truck and the TR4 I had both called for 6.