Pep Boys Tranny Service

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May 26, 2003
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Fleming Island, FL
I have nearly 140K miles on my 1995 Ford Taurus, and I'll admit - I've neglected my transmission. After reading this board for a bit, I was convinced I needed to change my tranny fluid and filter, treat with the Auto-RX transmission cleaner, and then then redo the tranny fluid/filter change in another 1K miles (per the Auto-RX instructions).

So yesterday, I went to Pep Boys to have the filter changed. I was figuring on doing the simple filter change along with cleaning out the pan, and reusing the remaining tranny fluid. The service writter convinced me that this transmission filter was a wire mesh screen, and that the only way to clean it was to back-flush the filter, which they do with the transmission fluid exchange program.

Well, you guessed it - I didn't do my homework.

I go to the Autozone web site, and sure enough, they list a filter for my transmission. So I'm running around with a backflushed filter. Not very good according to the Auto-RX web site. They specifically warn about this.

Then it gets worse...

Along with 4 gallons of ATF (thier own brand, but since I'm only planning on using it for 1K miles while the Auto-RX tranny treatment does it's stuff), there's also 10 oz. of "10oz. Black HFM fluid" and "32 oz. Clear ATF Flush."

Is anyone familiar with this flush system they're using? It sounds to me (but I'm not sure) that the "Clear ATF Flush" may have been used early in the exchange process to clean out the tranny. I know the quantity is less than 4 gallons, so some/most of that must be going to clean out the transmission. Doing this with synthetic would be expensive - 4 gallons of transmission fluid at Amsoil prices for synthetic would have run me about $125!

But what's this "Black HFM Fluid?"

I am really P.O.'d that the filter didn't get changed, and that the service rep fooled me on that point. Shame on me. I'll never darken his doorstep again. And, I'm worried about what this "Black HFM fluid" is, as the Auto-RX web site says other cleaner/additives require another cleaning cycle to ensure they're out of the system. If it was put in early and flushed out, I think I should be OK, but if not, this whole cleaning was a waste of time and money.

This flush cost me $90. If I need another flush to get rid of the "Black HFM fluid," it's going to cost me that again plus an Auto-RX tranny treatment. $90 down the toilet, with another $90 flush and $25 Auto-RX treatment just to bring me back to where I was before I started.

Any transmission experts familiar with how Pep Boys does thier Transmission Fluid Exchange have any suggestions for how I should proceed?

Thanks,
- Arved
 
Arved, you got the 'Song & Dance'. Sorry it cost so much a "Transmission Flush", they dumped solvent into your unit (10 ounces of Black HFM Fluid). E-mail me at [email protected] with your address, I'll send you Auto-Rx at N/C and lets start over. This time when it's time to drain transmission, go to Jiffy Lube-Shell Lube Center. They have T-Tec Machines and this experience you just had will fade.

Frank

[ June 08, 2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
 
Frank,

No need for more Auto-RX (transmission version). I haven't cracked open the 3 bottles you sent last week (the 3 for 2 + $5 deal was too tempting). I'll be going to Jiffy Lube from now on. Actually, I started out to go to Jiffy Lube, but the store I knew had closed and became a "Brake Depot" store. I stopped by Pep Boys on a fluke while looking for the next nearest Jiffy Lube. Pep Boys had treated me OK before, but I've now lost all faith in them.

So my biggest questions is how do I proceed given this contaminated fluid's in my transmission?

- Arved
 
Arvel, sent you e-mail through this board on my choice #1. What follows is choice #2: My understanding is you now have been through flush, have new transmission fluid, and worried about effect of Black HFM Fluid which did not flush out completely, correct? If I understand this, add 2 ounces of Auto-Rx to your transmission and drive on. Auto-Rx will neutralize any third party chemistry and hold it in suspension. Your unit should be fine and you can safely put some decent mileage before T-Tec, say in 20,000 miles.
Frank
 
Frank,

I'm concerned about the Black HFM fluid, the old transmission filter, AND the need to continue with the Auto-RX Transmission cleaning process.

I'll be looking forward to your other e-mail.

Thanks,
- Arved
 
Arvid,

1) Go into any parts store where the transmission filters on on open shelves and look at the one for your car. Both actual filters and mesh screens are called filters in the parts books. (I think you'll find that it's a felt filter which does need changing.)

2) The "Black HFM" stuff is a transmission fluid supplement so standard Dexron III & Mercon ATF can be used in place of highly friction modified ATF...such as Chrysler ATF+, Honda ATF, etc. I don't think it's the right stuff for your Ford transmission which probably takes Mercon ATF...check your owner's manual. This would be the standard Dexron III/Mercon stuff which would be the standard Pep Boys stuff.
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/index_trans.html

3) The "clear ATF flush" stuff is probably a strong solvent that they run in your transmission for 15 minutes or so before flushing to loosen the crud.

If it was me, I'd go back, and strongly inquire why they installed the flush product without your knowledge or permission, and to document why your transmission needs the HFM supplement. Also find out for sure what kind of a filter your transmission takes. When they admit their mistakes, trade them two free correct jobs--one with a new filter and the correct ATF without the supplement, and another with another new filter and a top brand of ATF after the Auto-Rx cleaning. Otherwise, study up on small claims court and contact your state's auto repair hotline at your Attorney General's office.


Ken
 
Thanks Ken.

I really don't want to go back to Pep Boys on this. They sell a transmission fluid exchange package, which is what I got. It further breaks down into the sub parts of a (1) Trans fluid exchange w/modifier($52.04) LBR 10 oz Black HFM Fluid ($8.99), 4 gallons of ATF Dex/MER Proline (house brand, my tranny takes regular Mercon since it's a pre-'96 Ford, right? Ford switched to Mercon V in 1996)(4 gal at $5.09/gal = 20.36), and 32 oz. of Clear ATF flush ($8.60) for the packaged (advertised) price of $89.99. I got what I paid for. It was my own dang fault I listened to the service writter, and didn't ask enough questions.

It really is my fault for not doing my homework.

I'll drive my car minimally for the next week, and next weekend, I'll get the transmission flushed again at a more reputable shop. I'm NOT happy about the Black HFM (High Friction Modifier?) junk in my transmission.

- Arved

[ June 08, 2003, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Arved ]
 
I have my own story. First, a little prequel:

September of last year, my wife and I were living in a condo, and I didn't have the facilities to do my own fluid changes. As a result, I had less interest, and therefore didn't do enough research in my car. I wasn't even aware that the AT had a filter in it.

I'd been driving my wife's '95 Hyundai Accent daily since we started living together. I know she had maintained it poorly and the transmission oil had never been changed, so I took it to the local lube shop for a "flush." I watched ignorantly as they filled and drained it a few times (not even aware of what type of fluid they were using!). The guy had a white paper towel with a drop of the original fluid from the dipstick, to which he added a final drop from the freshly "flushed" transmission, also from the dipstick. Yes, it went from brown to red. Clean, yup. I would've noticed if they'd dropped the pan--they didn't, so I know they didn't change the filter.

Fast-forward to February of this year. We'd bought a "real" house with a "real" garage in November, so I started rolling up my sleeves, buying Hayne's manuals, and doing my own work. The tranny in the Accent never seemed to shift as smoothly since the "flush" so digging into my Hayne's manual, I discovered there was a filter under the pan that could be changed! So, I did it! And I used the correct fluid while I was at it (I can't prove the lube shop used ATF+3 like they were supposed to, but knowing how relatively uncommon that grade is, I wouldn't doubt if they put DexronIII in).

The result? The tranny shifts like (I think!) it's supposed to now. I'd driven 5000 miles on the "flush", and I couldn't drain the torque converter on the tranny, so I plan on another fluid/filter change shortly (in less than 10,000 mi since my original fluid/filter change) to try and get any old fluid from the TC out.

Lesson learned. Don't feel too bad, Arved. You're not alone.
wink.gif
 
99% sure the black HFM fluid is Lubegard HFM (black bottle). Lubegard also has a red bottle (not HFM).

Transmission places seem to like putting this stuff in when they do work.

Black bottle is basically for honda, chrysler ATF-3/4, and toyota T-IV applications.

Red bottle is basically for the rest of us (dexron II/III, mercron, etc).

I'm not sure why they like putting in the black stuff instead of the red stuff after transmission work (even when the red stuff is called for) but they seem to.
 
Green bottle is supposed to adapt Dexron III/Mercon ATF to match Mercon-V.

The Platinum bottle is supposed to be universal...makes DexIII match everything.


Ken
 
quote:

Originally posted by mikeinaustin:
I'm not sure why they like putting in the black stuff instead of the red stuff after transmission work (even when the red stuff is called for) but they seem to.

If I had to guess, based on the information on the Lubgaurd site, the black stuff reduces the break-away torque in the clutches. This means the transmission will appear to shift smoother, which is what most people identify with as a healthy transmission.

- Arved
 
Pepboys in my area refused to do the flush on my '98 Grand Cherokee because it has 64K miles on it. Apparently they won't do the flush with over 50K on the odometer. I guess you can say I was lucky they didn't anyway. I think the best way to perform a total flush witout running into problems is NOT to use a solvent and definitely replace the filter first. Disconnect the tranny cooler return line going back to the tranny and do it that way.

-Warm up engine to operating temp then turn off engine.
-Disconnect the return line.
-Aim line into a large bucket.
-Turn the engine on and watch the fluid until it starts to gurgle....that means the pan is about empty. Definitely need 2 poeple for this.
-Now you're ready to drop the pan without having to worry about a mess all over you and the driveway.
-Clean the pan and the magnet, replace the filter and gasket and button it back up.
-Re-fill the pan with fresh fluid.
-Turn engine on until 2 quarts come out. Turn engine off and fill the dipstick tube with 2 quarts of fresh fluid.
-Turn engine on and repeat the process until you. either notice that the fluid is new(clean) or you reached total fluid capacity(usually 12 quarts minus the amount you poured into the pan - refer to manual).
-Re-connect the return line and now you're done...almost. Check the level and top off if necessary.
 
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