Wisdom of BITOG'ers wanted- 19 Avalon Hybrid oil

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Just purchased a 2019 Toyota Avalon HYBRID XSE (Toyota version of Lexus ES350/ES300h). The gas engine (A25A-FKS, see https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/powertrain/engine ) is a very high performance engine, ultra-efficient, Atkinson cycle 2.5-liter, four-cylinder gas engine, DOHC 16-Valve D-4S Dual Injection with VVT-iE, VVT-i

• High speed combustion technology
• Compression ratio 14 (NOT a mistake, 14 is correct!)
• Multi-hole direct injector
• Continuous variable capacity oil pump -Trochoid type
• Engine thermal efficiency 41%
• Overall MPG (Gas &Electric) 43/43/43 mpg

Toyota recommends:
• Oil grade: API SN/RC multigrade engine oil
• Viscosity: SAE 0W-16

What oils should be considered and why?
 
The owners manual is your first stop. You can run any major brand of oil that meets the specs for your new Toyota.

My SkyActiv engine is 13:1 compression, running 0w20 Valvoline with no worries and it runs smooth.

Congrats on a nice vehicle.
 
TGMO 0W16. Why? I think pickings are slim, my one google search revealed HGMO, TGMO, CQ and Motul. Whichever one is cheapest I guess, but it would give me warm fuzzies to run TGMO in a Toyota. Apparently TGMO prices are not terrible for OEM oil, too.
 
Nothing other than the OEM spec if you want to maintain your warranty.

With respect to BITOG wisdom, please be prepared for ambiguous, misleading, and poorly worded responses wrapped in innuendo, superstition, and blind loyalty (either to an idea or a company).

Good luck!!!
 
Originally Posted by maxdustington
TGMO 0W16. Why? I think pickings are slim, my one google search revealed HGMO, TGMO, CQ and Motul. Whichever one is cheapest I guess, but it would give me warm fuzzies to run TGMO in a Toyota. Apparently TGMO prices are not terrible for OEM oil, too.


Ditto
 
Travellers 20w50 duh.


Just kidding. Run 0w16 until you are no longer covered by the powertrain warranty.
 
Same as every other Toyota manual. Use this, if you can't find it use that, if you don't strictly get groceries with it use anything else other that this or that.


Quote
â– Engine oil selection
"Toyota Genuine Motor Oil" is used in your Toyota vehicle. Use
Toyota approved "Toyota Genuine Motor Oil" or equivalent to satisfy
the following grade and viscosity.
Oil grade: API SN/RC multigrade engine oil
Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-16
SAE 0W-16 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good starting
in cold weather.
If SAE 0W-16 is not available, SAE
0W-20 oil may be used. However,
it must be replaced with SAE 0W16
at the next oil change.
Oil viscosity (0W-16 is explained here as an example):
• The 0W in 0W-16 indicates the characteristic of the oil which allows cold
startability. Oils with a lower value before the W allow for easier starting of
the engine in cold weather.
• The 16 in 0W-16 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the
oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher
value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or
under extreme load conditions.
 
Originally Posted by Imp4


With respect to BITOG wisdom, please be prepared for ambiguous, misleading, and poorly worded responses wrapped in innuendo, superstition, and blind loyalty (either to an idea or a company).

Good luck!!!


For OP, no truer words have been written.

If I were you, I'd stick with OEM. The oil is good, and should do right by you. Congrats on your new vehicle.
 
You should get free changes at 10k and 20k, assuming they recommend the 10k interval. I do 5k on my 17 Avalon. I will get one more free change at 20k. I did it myself at 5 and 15 with M1 AFE 0w20. If I owned your car I would use M1 0w20 at 5k intervals on that D.I. motor. I know warranty blah blah.
 
Cool engine! I'd probably stick to the TGMO for at least the first few years. If there is a major defect in the engine it should manifest itself by then. After a few years i'd probably be more comfortable with a M1 0w20.
 
Originally Posted by Old Mustang Guy
You should get free changes at 10k and 20k, assuming they recommend the 10k interval. I do 5k on my 17 Avalon. I will get one more free change at 20k. I did it myself at 5 and 15 with M1 AFE 0w20. If I owned your car I would use M1 0w20 at 5k intervals on that D.I. motor. I know warranty blah blah.
It's not a TDGI engine though, so it might not be as hard on oil as if it were turbocharged. I would probably do a UOA at the manufacturer's OCI and go from there. I'll bet it can go farther than 5k on a quality oil.
 
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by Old Mustang Guy
You should get free changes at 10k and 20k, assuming they recommend the 10k interval. I do 5k on my 17 Avalon. I will get one more free change at 20k. I did it myself at 5 and 15 with M1 AFE 0w20. If I owned your car I would use M1 0w20 at 5k intervals on that D.I. motor. I know warranty blah blah.
It's not a TDGI engine though, so it might not be as hard on oil as if it were turbocharged. I would probably do a UOA at the manufacturer's OCI and go from there. I'll bet it can go farther than 5k on a quality oil.


IMO at 14:1 compression its stressed just as much as a turbo engine. Possibly more, since every single revolution is at high compression. Turbo engines get to relax when out of boost. my golf puts along at 9.6:1 for the vast majority of its engine revolutions.
 
Originally Posted by dareo
IMO at 14:1 compression its stressed just as much as a turbo engine. Possibly more, since every single revolution is at high compression. Turbo engines get to relax when out of boost. my golf puts along at 9.6:1 for the vast majority of its engine revolutions.
I am not an automotive engineer but I thought it was the high temps the oil is exposed to inside the turbo that shears the oil. I'm not sure the high compression would really have an effect on oil, else the Skyactiv engines would be notorious on here for it.
 
Originally Posted by scion_xb
Compression ratio 14 (NOT a mistake, 14 is correct!)


Originally Posted by dareo
IMO at 14:1 compression its stressed just as much as a turbo engine. Possibly more, since every single revolution is at high compression.



You are both wrong - - 14:1 is only theoretical, since this is a "Miller Cycle" engine.

An "Otto cycle" engine would need race gas, most likely.
 
0w16 is probably a good idea in the hybrids, with the engine constantly shutting on and off. The thinner oil might be better for that for easier starting up.

Your 0w16 choices are Valvoline and Carquest (AAP house brand, made by Amalie). They do include 0w16 in their oil change specials.

You can get M1 0w16 and Idemitsu Zepro 0w16 online, but they are very expensive! That makes Valvoline and Carquest the only 0w16 options at realistic prices, as they charge the same price for 0w16 as they charge for normal grades.
 
OOOPS... I was wrong

New ultra high compression Toyota engines are "Atkinson Cycle"........ not Miller cycle or Otto cycle

("Traditional" 4-cycle engines we usually think of are Otto cycle)
 
Wow, Toyota decides to use API as a recommendation this time, I wonder why. I would first use your free oil changes. Hopefully by them you will have options available in the 0w16 field. Most of your well known oil brands have 0w16 in there offerings now.
 
Id consider running TGMO or a spec 0w-16 for a few OCIs to let any infant mortality issues run out, then consider 0w-20 M1 EP.

Why? Because Hybrids are one type of vehicle where I do think that PAO may be useful. Since the engine (at least my accord hybrid does this) can shut off instantaneously after long/hard acceleration, there is potential for a lot of heat soak on any oil local to the hot components. They will heat soak, as will the oil, and the oil will take the effects. So I want a higher PAO (for oxidation stability), and lowest NOACK (to that extent, a 5w-20 may be preferable).

If this wasnt the hybrid, and just a run of the mill engine that idled and ran regularly, Id be more inclined to lean on the 0w-16 all the way unless I knew I was going to see some severe use in the next OCI.

Good luck with it!
 
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