Recent Topics
Mobil 1 Oil ?
by lawnguy
10/23/14 03:36 PM
Warren Synthetic Blend 5w-30 $2.99 Qt.
by Rat407
10/23/14 03:27 PM
New oil for Chrysler and Dodge.
by chrisri
10/23/14 03:26 PM
1969 Pontiac
by 69P
10/23/14 02:30 PM
Rotella 10w-30; 3k miles; 42k miles on Dmax
by dnewton3
10/23/14 01:28 PM
Lucas FTW!
by SMB
10/23/14 01:01 PM
Castrol Full Synthetic 5/w50
by Doktor_Bert
10/23/14 12:36 PM
Naked Eye Sunspot Visible
by sleddriver
10/23/14 12:27 PM
Solar eclipse today
by Toy4x4
10/23/14 11:58 AM
What mid 2000's crossover suv should I buy?
by 55Test
10/23/14 10:37 AM
Standardizing on 5W-30?
by Tony_Mack
10/23/14 10:36 AM
Does anyone make a quality battery anymore?
by jeepman3071
10/23/14 10:28 AM
Newest Members
69P, newbull87, vzarich, 340_Magnum, aselinger
51675 Registered Users
Who's Online
94 registered (901Memphis, 95MarkVIII, 01rangerxl, 69P, aquariuscsm, abycat, 6 invisible), 1843 Guests and 190 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51675 Members
64 Forums
221108 Topics
3495410 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#478898 - 08/25/02 05:43 AM Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
Neil Womack Offline


Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 718
Loc: Central Texas
I'm very close to ordering all next years oil from Tim. Included in that order will be a case of #267 Supreme Gear Lube for my farm gear boxes.

The product description does not include outboard applications. However, can anyone educate me on the possible use of #267, an automotive GL-5 gear lube, as an outboard gear lube.

Just looking for one more use for something I will have on hand anyway. The outboard only uses a 8 oz. tube of the speciality lube.

Top
#478899 - 08/25/02 05:56 AM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
joee12 Offline


Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 4106
quote:
Originally posted by neilw:
I'm very close to ordering all next years oil from Tim. Included in that order will be a case of #267 Supreme Gear Lube for my farm gear boxes.

The product description does not include outboard applications. However, can anyone educate me on the possible use of #267, an automotive GL-5 gear lube, as an outboard gear lube.

Just looking for one more use for something I will have on hand anyway. The outboard only uses a 8 oz. tube of the speciality lube.

Neil, what make and model is your outboard? Most outboards use 80w-90. -Joe

Top
#478900 - 08/25/02 07:44 PM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
msparks Offline


Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 3324
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee
Be carefull using a GL5 in a lower unit.

I believe most call for GL4.

Unless your unit specifically calls for a GL5 I would stay away.

This is the reason that Amsoil specifically makes a marine gear oil.

Top
#478901 - 08/25/02 11:49 PM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
Bio-T Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 5336
Loc: London, AR
neilw,
A marine specific lower unit gear lubricant should only be used in an outboard. The additive package in a marine gear oil is usually higher and has superior water demulsability and corrosion protection.

For an OTC you can get Pennzoil 100% synthetic (excludes the carrier oil) and it is GL-5 and backward compatible. 75W90, good all temp oil.

Another OTC is LubriMatic Power Pro, a semi-syn with 20% synthetic, GL-4 and 80-90.

I use the Pennzoil in all 3 boats as I can get it at Wally World, and always in stock. The reason I went with it is in the winter there are a few times when I have to go through 1/8" ice to get to my fishing spot. And in the summer, in my 200 EFI Mercury I sometimes have to make 26 mile runs one way at RPM's over 5.5K in water 90+. So I operate in varying environments.

I change my lower unit oil twice a year, and so far I haven't had a failure or leak yet. (Knocking on wood). To me it is cheap insurance.

Top
#478902 - 08/26/02 05:02 AM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
Neil Womack Offline


Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 718
Loc: Central Texas
Thanks guys.

The motor is a Suzuki 15 HP on a jon boat that calls for 90wt hypoid gear oil can't remember if it calls for GL-4 or GL-5 just now. I put around 30 hours / year on the motor and change the gear and engine ,4 stroke, once per year usually just before I put the boat to bed in December.

So far it sounds like I need to stick with marine gear oil. Is that right?

Top
#478903 - 09/30/02 08:28 AM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
Vetteman is correct. The Marine Lower Gear lube has a slightly different additive package, with more anti-rust, anti-corrosion addtives, somewhat less EP additives.

I too prefer the Pennzoil 100% synthetic lube. Somewhat pricey for an OTC lube ($6.25/Qt.), but has better VI, etc. Of course, the amount of LGL used is also less, so for the money, the Pennzoil is a better buy IMHO. So stick with the Marine lube and its preferred additive package.

Top
#478904 - 10/02/02 09:13 AM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 1874
Loc: Ocala, Florida
quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule:
Vetteman is correct. The Marine Lower Gear lube has a slightly different additive package, with more anti-rust, anti-corrosion addtives, somewhat less EP additives.

I think it's time for some clarity here on marine applications on gear oils vers gl4/ gl5 and so forth.

The difference between a gl4 and gl5 gear oil is the rate of ep additive used between the two. The reason behind this is not because the ep will cause problems with the metals but it will not provide proper lockup for some clutch systems that are used.

In the case of an outboard lower unit, this is a direct drive to what I know, it locks into a gear and has no clutches.

Ok, marine gear oil vers standard gear oil.. differences are none. Like many marketing tactics used by many companies, many products are exactly the same but just relabled. Just like our 131 neutra and our 292 purge is the same but yet very different packaging and td sheets.

Now, lets look at the 267 which has been advised by many as not a good choice but in my opinon is incorrect and I do have many using it for just that.

1. Enhanced thermal and oxidation stability and durability to handle operating temperatures of 300F to 350F.

2. Excellent extreme pressure properties to protect the gears and bearings from excessive wear and fatigue.

3. Prevention of the formulation of sludge and carbon deposits that can erode seals.

4. Excellent seal compatibility.

5. Enhanced protection of copper, brass and bronze components from corrosion.

6. Non-corrosivity to brass, bronze and other non ferrous metal parts.

7. Excellent protection of components from rust and corrosion in dry conditions and in the presence of moisture.

8. Excellent resistance to water and moisture.

9. Excellent water separability characteristics.

10.Enhanced gear, bearing and seal cleanliness.

11.Excellent resistance to foaming.


Now, those items in bold are very essential in a good lower unit boat gear oil.

Now I'm not trying to pick on amsoil and their marine gear oil but since I have a bottle of that from a local rep that brought it over here and wanted to see some comparisons, I'll tell you the results.

I encourage any and all of you to try this that have some of the 267 gear oil as well.

He was showing me how the water seperates from the oil after shaking up the bottle of amsoil marine lube. So, he and I took fresh samples of each, 267 and amsoil full synth marine gear oil, put water in each tube, shook, then watched. The 267, seperated from the water in secs, the full synth took several min's. The amsoil did eventually seperate and given that, I think that was good in comparison to some "top of the line" gear oils.

The other thing was on the top of the lubricant where you can plainly see bubbles, amsoil loaded with them, again, 267 was very little. So, with bubbles, this is trapped air which produces no lubrication which produces heat.

We then took and put both into bowls, took egg beaters, spun them quickly to see if the oil would climb, amsoil didn't like all others I have tested, whereas the 267 pulled up onto the egg beaters. This point is to show that 267 contains adhesive-cohesive additives that allows the gear oil to tenaciously stick and cling to the gears and bearings. This ensures the gear lube to retain a fine film that “stays put” on the metal surface of the gears and bearings but also allows it to climb up in slow speeds to get to the parts whereas most rely on the slinging action of a gear to get parts above the oil line lubricated.
This is extemly important when we are talking about slower moving gears in big equipment or tractors and such as well as in this application.

I myself would and do use the 267 gear oil in the lower units of a boat motor, no hesitation on my part and I will shortly see about setting up a pic page on the gear oil test I descibed above.

Top
#478905 - 10/01/02 10:27 PM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 1874
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Here's the page with the pics so you can see these test results on the above mentioned tests. Obviously there is some other issues and tests but these are some primary things I look for in a gear oil, especially the foaming and climbing ability.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/gearoiltest.htm

Top
#478906 - 10/01/02 11:49 PM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
Bob,

I would encourage Schaeffer's to list the #267 as suitable for Lower Marine Gear Lube application since apparently it does suffice for the application.

My information came from CRC and other sources and seemed logical since these units
are basically right angle drives subject to a lot of moisture and potential corrosion and don't see as much torque as say car and LT differentials.

Now if a GL4/GL5 gear lube has sufficient rust and corrosion protection WITH an EP additive
then it can be used in a LMGU..

Top
#478907 - 10/01/02 11:58 PM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
I think what the eggbeater demonstration shows is that the "surface tension" of the
Shaeffer's allows the oil to cover parts more effectively. The surfactant/wetter in Schaeffer's products allow the oil and it additives to cover and "wet" mechanical parts better.

This also leads me to believe that Amsoil's lubes have little synth materials in them since
the surface tension is high. Most synth base oils have very low surface tension, allowing them to spread and wet parts. I have pure samples of both PAO and TMP esters and they have extremely low surface tension and good spreading qualities.

Top
#478908 - 10/02/02 12:54 AM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
From the #741 TDS: "This additive package also provides the Synthetic Lube EP E/A Gear Lubes with rust and corrosion inhibiting properties and demulsibility characteristics."

From the #276 TDS: "Enhanced protection of copper, brass and bronze components from corrosion."

It appears that if you have brass-based parts (such as brass bearings or gearing) in the Lower Gear Unit the #276 would be better, but if you have an all steel Gear Unit, the #741 would be the better product.

Top
#478909 - 10/02/02 05:01 AM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
TooSlick Offline


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 5785
Loc: Dixie
Mike is correct, most of the lower units I've seen call for a GL-4 only product. I believe it may in fact have something to do with the stability of the sulphur/phosphorus, EP additives in the presence of water and heat. You can also run into high temp corrosion problems with bronze/brass/copper materials. I have seen some GL-5 lubes recommended for this application, so it depends on the manufacturer and the particular type of additive chemistry being used.

The Amsoil marine gear lube is the same stuff as their regular 80w-90, GL-4 product ....

Top
#478910 - 10/03/02 06:18 PM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 1874
Loc: Ocala, Florida
I took the time to go visit one of my boat shops I supply lubricants to and we in back and looked at a lower unit.

In this picture, you can see where the oil fill line is, and where the needle bearing is in relation to the fill line. The oil is below this bearing and requires a splashing/climbing effect to lube it. The other point is, when you run a motor in water, the inner exhaust port runs through the inside out to the prop. The water jacket is between the lubed areas and the exhaust, there fore it doesn't see any extreme heat from this. As for ep, well in my opinion, when most run boats it's usually put to full throttle quickly and so the engine will provide enough force to the gears on the bottom to normally squeeze the oil out momentarily but in this kind of application, the gears are submerged in oil and cannot accomplish that very easily so ep isn't near as much of an issue therefore a gl-4 is able to be used in most. There is no clutches used in this system, it is all mechanical, some use electrical selenoids to move the bottom gears to forward or reverse.

Notice also, brass, bronze and all other types of metals that supposedly would react to water are not used in this area. A picture of the needle bearing is also on the right so you can see what that looks like. There is apparent corrossion from the salt water jacket which you will see if you don't flush it out after use with fresh water and to be expected.

Last thing, on the bottom, there is where you normally drain the oil.. In the case of schaeffers or even amsoil after a short while, you can pull the plug and drain off the accumilated water, recap and top back off without doing a complete service if so desired.

 -

Top
#478911 - 10/08/02 01:23 AM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
BTW,

Pennzoil does add more anti-corrosive and anti-rust additives to their already robust EP package in their new synth Lower Marine Gear lubes.

Top
#478912 - 10/08/02 07:27 PM Re: Outboard Lower Unit gear oil 80w-90
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
Interesting Pics Bob,

With needle bearings, I am surprised they aren't specifiying ATF, or is that the only needle bearing present?

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >