Re-Formulated Amsoil 0w-40/AFF

TooSlick · Jul 21, 2005

Analysis by OAI....

Physical/Chemical Properties:

Vis @ 100C, 13.85 (spec sheet lists 14.0)

TBN(ASTM D-4739), 10.0 (spec sheet indicates TBN > 11.0, using ASTM D-2896, so that checks)

Additive Levels:

Si, 2 ppm (anti-foam additive)

Boron, 110 ppm (corrosion inhibitor)

Ca, 2545 ppm (detergent/dispersant)

Mg, 842 ppm (detergent/dispersant)

P, 1211 ppm (primary AW additive)

Zn, 1451 ppm (primary AW additive)

Recent Batch Data (phone discussion from Tech Support):

Noack Volatility, 6.7%
HT/HS viscosity, 4.0 Cp

I'll be using this SJ/CF type formulation in a 2002 Audi TT, with the 225 Hp engine....

buster · Jul 21, 2005

Looks like a well built 0w-40.

Blake Sobiloff · Jul 21, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
I'll be using this SJ/CF type formulation in a 2002 Audi TT, with the 225 Hp engine....

Holy cow, Ted--you finally found an 0W-40 you like! Shhhh, don't let Doug find out.

Doug Hillary · Jul 21, 2005

Hi Ted,

I'm still here - I've already heard that this oil shears badly and then thickens quickly to a SAE50

It was perhaps just a whisper from the Elves....

Now Ted all we need are some Approval Listings then I could even use it in my Benz if it gets to MB229.5. And Porsche Approval...........?

Keep smiling Ted - by the way I'm still looking for all the valve train components replaced under Warranty when using an Approved 0w-40. Perhaps this oil will provide them as all the others haven't!!

Sounds good Ted - Oh its only SJ/CF!

Regards
Doug

TooSlick · Jul 21, 2005

This formulation is actually intended for motorcycle engines. However the add pack is quite robust and I'm sure it will do fine in a VW 502.00/505.00 applications. This looks like a fortified version of the add pack used in the TSO/ASL/ATM formulations....

OEM approvals aren't worth the paper they're written on, since they are mainly a "buy in" that involves paying a large sum of $$$ to the OEM...I'd rather have the best field performance than the best pedigree with a bunch of OEM approvals.

In this case, the old SJ rating is due to the high level of ZDDP and Phosphorus > 1000 ppm. Due to this, I expect see excellent performance in terms of minimizing valve train and ring/cylinder wear, ie Fe and Cr levels.

This stuff is quite a bit more expensive than the M1, 0w-40, ie $6.55/qt vs $5.00/qt. So it's probably not a fair comparison...

LOL!

Blake Sobiloff · Jul 22, 2005

Ted, thanks for posting this info--I may have found my new motorcycle oil! This oil has some stellar numbers behind it when it's new. I'll be very interested to see some UOAs on it to see how well it lives up to its promise.

(Doug, if you weren't kidding about thickening into a 50-weight that'd make it even better in my book!)

TooSlick · Jul 22, 2005

Blake,

You should let me post the 3000 mile results from the Audi TT turbo, before you run this in some Japanese Superbike in hot weather.

By the way, when Doogie reads about this w/ his "wine goggles" on, it looks like:

00ww--4400

Doug Hillary · Jul 22, 2005

Hi,
Blake - if you check most Amsoil UOAs you will find their products seem to thicken with regularity

I believe that this may be why Amsoil chose not to have some of their products "Approved" - they would probably not make it. Those that do should be noted!

For me I prefer an oil to "remain in grade" with only about a 5% viscosity swing up or down over the intended OCI (especially with extended OCIs)

This Amsoil product is probably quite good it is just a shame that some Marketing practices by Amsoil diminish their image. At least those Marketing here on BITOG have credibility

Well that is except for my friend Ted and his fixation about excessive valve train wear and the excessive shearing of Manufacturer Approved 0w-40 oils! He'll get over it!!!

Ted - ya nervous now about this product shearing.........??? And valve train wear........? And..........?

It is a wet winter's day here in the Tropics Ted - no boating for days. I'll have a Shiraz for you though!!!

Regards
Doug

[ July 22, 2005, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

TooSlick · Jul 22, 2005

Doug,

So, what's meant by the phrase: "Only mad dogs and Englishman go out in the mid-day sun"?

It might explain many things...

Doug Hillary · Jul 22, 2005

Hi Ted,

all I can say is that I'm glad I not English!

I could be a bit of a dog I suppose - well a Dingo at least!!!

Regards
Doug

buster · Jul 22, 2005

quote:

This Amsoil product is probably quite good it is just a shame that some Marketing practices by Amsoil diminish their image.

I will say I'm in agreement with Doogems and not a fan of Amsoil's marketing. I like the oils.

Teddles, where do you get all these great line's?

JavaMan · Jul 22, 2005

I've used Amsoil in the past and I'm sure I will use it again. I don't know exactly what you don't like about their marketing, but, there are middle men in most businesses. I would just as soon see the guy across the street making a living off of selling Amsoil as an executive in some highrise. As long as they make a quality product I don't care.

buster · Jul 22, 2005

I don't like the fact that every time I buy one of their products, I'm supporting some dealer who is a liar, period. Other then the guy's on here, I've never met ONE that tells the truth. Other then that, it's a good product.

Thanks Tony.

[ July 22, 2005, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

427Z06 · Jul 22, 2005

I'm guessing this is one of those 0w-40 grades that are a customer driven (one size fits all) idea, but has poor polymer chemistry.

Pablo · Jul 22, 2005

I'm still wondering why the Dougster didn't check my 5W-40 analysis?

TooSlick · Jul 23, 2005

The most popular ATV - Polaris - recommends an SAE 0w-40 and Polaris makes a branded synthetic in that SAE grade (possibly a Petro Canada or Esso oil). Amsoil came out with this particular oil to specifically target the replacement market for that engine and for other four stroke recreational motors.

The OEM recommendations for these four stroke, ATV,MC, outboard, PWC, "Sled" engines range from 5w-30 to 10w-40 and this is indeed a "one size fits all" lubricant for those applications. And now you know the rest of the story....

Of course, since Amsoil actually does know what they're doing,

I expect this oil to hold up fine (note the HT/HS viscosity of 4.0 Cp, vs the vis @ 100C of only 14.0 Cst).

This 0w-40 has an extremely high VI of 204, vs 185 for the Mobil 1, 0w-40, or 195 for the S2000, 0w-30. So I'll be very interested to see if I can get this stuff to shear by 10%-12% in the Audi TT turbo, which runs extremely hot.

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics

buster · Jul 23, 2005

The Amsoil 0w-40 doesn't have to meet SM API specs and be a fuel efficient oil, two things that M1 0w-40 does meet. This obviously weakens the performance of the oil. XOM actually does make a 0w-40 with a HT/HS of 4.2 but it's under the ESSO brand.

TooSlick · Jul 23, 2005

The 0w-40 only has to meet the ACEA A3/B4 specification and not the API/SM specifications. The problem is that Mobil is trying to have it both ways and that's why the additive levels in the 0w-40 have been reduced to GF-4 levels.

The xw-40 grades DO NOT have ZDDP limits and the limit on sulphated ash for A3 is 1.5%,which is as high as CI-4+ rated, HDEO's...

Buster,

"Every time I buy one of their (Amsoil) products, I support a dealer who is a liar" ?

So you'd prefer to buy your oil from EOM, the company who kept a known drunk on the payroll to pilot a Supertanker full of crude oil through Price William Sound? You want to play some hardball?

Ted

buster · Jul 23, 2005

quote:

So you'd prefer to buy your oil from EOM, the company who kept a known drunk on the payroll to pilot a Supertanker full of crude oil through Price William Sound? You want to play some hardball?

LOL..you have a point Long Island Ted.

I have no problem with Amsoil's products, other then the dealer's I've encountered. You guy's on here do a nice job, but the ones I've met around here simply lie consistantly. I've also found they no very little about oil. Not surprising.

quote:

The problem is that Mobil is trying to have it both ways

They have to try and have it both ways if they want to be factory fill and have API approval. If win the greens over, you win.

Doug Hillary · Jul 24, 2005

Hi,
Oh Ted you said:
"The 0w-40 only has to meet the ACEA A3/B4 specification and not the API/SM specifications"

Were you referring to M1? - and what about all of the Manufacturer Approvals (VW, MB, Porsche) with the other 0w-40s too?

Well Ted we will just wait until all the Manufacturer and API donut Approvals for the Amsoil 0w-40 are completed - when do you think "about the twelth of never"?

Any intelligent Oil Lab could formulate a reasonable "old style" (SJ/CF) 0w-40 if the established current design rules are not met - after all you said:

"I'll be using this SJ/CF type formulation........"
I don't quite know what this means though - does it "meet" SJ/CF, is it API recognised as this? or is it just a type of SJ/CF formulation???

For comparison though just look at some of the Motul, FUCHS etc.products

If you mention current formulation A3/B3-04,GF4 and Manufacturer Approved 0w-40 oils in the same breath as this SJ/CF Amsoil product you are surely fooling yourself!

Oh and Ted I would be less concerned about thinning with this product - I would be much more concerned about excessive thickening!!!

Regards
Doug

Re-Formulated Amsoil 0w-40/AFF

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