A special thanks to Mark Mathys
Virgin Castrol R4 Superbike Motorcycle Oil
- Thread starter mikeyoilnutt
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Yeah, I sent all these samples in closed unopened original containers. I think that these companies might not have the quality control some others do. This Castol prodict was made in Italy. I will call Mark next week and ask him his opinion. Most of these oils cost me more than 10 bucks a quart. mikeyoilnutt
pscholte, I've seen a few posts by Molakule where he's indicated that maybe it's additive (Ca?).
Hope he chimes in here, as all of the turbine oils that we use have higher particle countsthan are allowable when used, and maybe we are filtering the additives out when we top the oil tanks up.
Hope he chimes in here, as all of the turbine oils that we use have higher particle countsthan are allowable when used, and maybe we are filtering the additives out when we top the oil tanks up.
Some of these are additives and look like little pieces of caramel, others are white powdery-looking solids that I'm assuming are additives too. There were a lot of particles that do not appear to be additives and I saw several pieces of metal in some of these oils. Since is it possible to have contaminated sample bottles or lab equipment we ran controls (again) on our solvents, the filter funnel, and finally we poured the oil directly from the quart container into the filter apparatus. In each case the oil looked exactly the same. The most expensive had the most solids an I am not aware of any solid metal additives.
Once again, I think that these companies make only small batches and maybe they do not have the quality control others have. Who knows what kind of blending equipment they use and how they keep stuff clean before packaging? Just my opinion of course. mikeyoilnutt
I personally think it is always a good idea to prefill an oil filter when you can, however I do not have any evidence that it will prolong the life of an engine. It does upset me (cuase I choose to get upset) that high dollar oil would have junk in it right out of the bottle. mikeyoilnutt
It probably doesn't make a big difference but I do not advocate filling filters, this is based on the amount of contamination I have seen in new oils. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it though. If you are thinking of prefilling diesel fuel filters like a lot of people do that that is another ball game and I say ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!
Mikey I have some concerns about small oil companies too. There is no reason they can't produce a clean product but many don't have the resources or don't do the testing. Most people have a hard time accepting that new oil is not always clean oil. We used to test oils for one of the smaller companies that is frequently mentioned on this board. They didn't have the equipment needed to do particle counts but at least they were concerned enough to outsource the testing.
[ April 30, 2005, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Stinky Peterson ]
Mikey I have some concerns about small oil companies too. There is no reason they can't produce a clean product but many don't have the resources or don't do the testing. Most people have a hard time accepting that new oil is not always clean oil. We used to test oils for one of the smaller companies that is frequently mentioned on this board. They didn't have the equipment needed to do particle counts but at least they were concerned enough to outsource the testing.
[ April 30, 2005, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Stinky Peterson ]
Thanks for the information. The guys at the motor cycle shop in my area were concerned when I showed them this information. I was able to grab some of the old Amsoil 20W-50 and new 20W-50 motor cycle oil today. It will be intersting to see what the difference is. I failed to realize about pre filling the filter that is has to be pumped throught the filter before it goes to engine. I just assumed
(yeah I know what results in that) that new oil would be clean out of the bottle.
Guys,
While I am not losing any sleep over this
, what is your opinion of the impact of the metallic particles for a guy like me who pre-fills the filter before installing it during an oil change? I guess a "dry start" might be worse than some particles making one pass through before they get filetered out. Your thoughts? TNX
While I am not losing any sleep over this
Hi Mikey
The problem with prefilling is that most people dump the oil into the center of the filter. This is the "clean" side so anything here gets a free ride into the engine without being filtered. If you can put it into the outside the that's fine. Oil flows from out to in so it gets filtered.
Mark
The problem with prefilling is that most people dump the oil into the center of the filter. This is the "clean" side so anything here gets a free ride into the engine without being filtered. If you can put it into the outside the that's fine. Oil flows from out to in so it gets filtered.
Mark
Well I guess I will quit pre filling oil filters.
Any ideas on some type of filter to screen oil out of the bottle?
I have often thought about using a TP bypass setup to prefilter my oil. Now that I see many of the particles are actually additives, I am not sure if this would be good or bad.
What are your thoughts?
What are your thoughts?
Well that is a good question and one I don't have a good answer for. The particles that we are seeing are easily filterable but I am not sure it is good idea to remove them, in fact we are discussing this with our contamination control people right now. I think it is necessary to determine the nature of the particles before we start filtering to remove them.
A good compromise might be to let the bottles sit undisturbed for a day or so and then carefully transfer the oil into the filter or engine without draining out every last bit of oil. If there are metal particles (which is rare to see in quart cans) or dirt particles the heavy ones should settle out. The small additive particles will more likely remain suspended.
A good compromise might be to let the bottles sit undisturbed for a day or so and then carefully transfer the oil into the filter or engine without draining out every last bit of oil. If there are metal particles (which is rare to see in quart cans) or dirt particles the heavy ones should settle out. The small additive particles will more likely remain suspended.
I emailed Belray on their oil and they sent me this reply. I know this is The Castrol product page, but I felt more people might look at this.
Mickey,
We have looked at the bottle of EXS that you are showing in the photograph. Based on the markings that bottle is a 2002 vintage product. All oil products will have some settling of additives over time, especially over a three year period. The additives that do settle out of oil will appear to be contamination and look like what you saw under the microscope. If this oil was introduced in an engine and brought up to operating temperature the additives would go back into solution and we would see a very different particle count. You could in effect demonstrate that the additives would go back into solution by and heating the oil sample to say 150 deg. F while you agitate it for 15 minutes. Take another particle count and see what the numbers look like. This process will assure both of us that what you have referred to as Dirt is in fact additive settling.
Regards,
Bill Gay
Technical Service Manager
Bel-Ray Company
-----Original Message-----
From: Mikey Albertin [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 2:20 AM
To: Bel-Ray
Cc: Mikey Albertin
Subject: Dirty Oil
I sent a virgin samle of this oil to have it analysed. It seems to have a lot of dirt in it fresh out of the bottle. Any opinions? Thanks Mikey
Mickey,
We have looked at the bottle of EXS that you are showing in the photograph. Based on the markings that bottle is a 2002 vintage product. All oil products will have some settling of additives over time, especially over a three year period. The additives that do settle out of oil will appear to be contamination and look like what you saw under the microscope. If this oil was introduced in an engine and brought up to operating temperature the additives would go back into solution and we would see a very different particle count. You could in effect demonstrate that the additives would go back into solution by and heating the oil sample to say 150 deg. F while you agitate it for 15 minutes. Take another particle count and see what the numbers look like. This process will assure both of us that what you have referred to as Dirt is in fact additive settling.
Regards,
Bill Gay
Technical Service Manager
Bel-Ray Company
-----Original Message-----
From: Mikey Albertin [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 2:20 AM
To: Bel-Ray
Cc: Mikey Albertin
Subject: Dirty Oil
I sent a virgin samle of this oil to have it analysed. It seems to have a lot of dirt in it fresh out of the bottle. Any opinions? Thanks Mikey
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