In another post about long drain M1 it was stated that the whole line could be going through some changes in the coming months. This could be a stop gap with 20% lower Z/P to meet GF-4. Still a good oil but maybe there's even better things to follow?
New GF-4 Mobil 1 5w-30
- Thread starter buster
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It's hard to say. But yes the Mobil 1 lineup is going to change with the Extended Performance oils which look awesome from what George has mentioned. The current line of Mobil 1 exceeds the long drain specs out their now so it is a bit confusing.
New M1s with a 36% boost:
Zinc 749 x 1.36 = 1019
Phosphorus 677 x 1.36 = 921
Boron 150 x 1.36 = 204
Molybdenum 55 x 1.36 = 75
Calcium 2500 x 1.36 = 3400
From October 23, 2003 VOA M1 5w-30:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000152
Zinc 955
Phosphorus 849
Boron 198
Molybdenum 78
Calcium 2971
What is old is new again?
[ January 21, 2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
Zinc 749 x 1.36 = 1019
Phosphorus 677 x 1.36 = 921
Boron 150 x 1.36 = 204
Molybdenum 55 x 1.36 = 75
Calcium 2500 x 1.36 = 3400
From October 23, 2003 VOA M1 5w-30:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000152
Zinc 955
Phosphorus 849
Boron 198
Molybdenum 78
Calcium 2971
What is old is new again?
[ January 21, 2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
MolaKule
Staff member
Just to clarify, Extreme Pressure (EP) additives are used in gear boxes, whereas Anti-Wear (AW) additives are used in Engines and hydraulic oils.
The zinc and phosphorus you see may eminate from the familiar ZDDP compound.
The zinc and phosphorus you see may eminate from the familiar ZDDP compound.
MolaKule
Staff member
The last sentence should have read:
"The zinc and phosphorus you see may NOT eminate from the familiar ZDDP compound."
Newer additive compounds can also give you the P, Z, and S elements.
Mystic,
The answer is no: Schaeffer's #132 gives you a small amount of moly and some antimony.
However, the carrier/surfactant is a great Friction Reduction fluid.
This is a good point, being all of this is happening around the same time GF-4 Mobil 1 is hitting the shelf. Once we see some VOA's of the new EP stuff, we'll know.
Also, what about the 50% more SuperSyn? Where does that come into play and what is it they are referring too?
Mola, if the P, Z, and S elements are not from the familiar ZDDP compound, would the different compound(s) they come from serve the same or different function(s)? And if the new compound(s) serve the same function(s) would they be substantially superior to the old ZDDP?
NSS, I was just making a general comparison of stuff we can actually measure. All the "special ingredients" talk is pure speculation on most everyone's part.
I'm taking it the names of thse compounds and companies who make them cannot be posted ?
"Myth You don't have to change the oil as often when using Mobil 1.
Reality
While Mobil 1 has given excellent results in extended oil drain tests, ExxonMobil prefers to remain conservative with oil drain recommendations. ExxonMobil engineers recommend that you can go all the way to the maximum mileage or time frame shown in your owner's manual for oil changes when using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™. This allows the reserve protection capabilities of Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ to cover unusual or unexpected driving conditions.
Oil change intervals can be as short as 3,000 miles or as long as 15,000 miles on some new cars. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™'s high-performance reserves can give you the confidence to go the full mileage or time frame recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is especially suitable for the latest vehicles with extended drain intervals or vehicles with oil monitoring systems that vary oil drain intervals."
This is from the Mobil 1 current website referring to the SL GF-3 version...sounds a lot the the new extended drain.
Reality
While Mobil 1 has given excellent results in extended oil drain tests, ExxonMobil prefers to remain conservative with oil drain recommendations. ExxonMobil engineers recommend that you can go all the way to the maximum mileage or time frame shown in your owner's manual for oil changes when using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™. This allows the reserve protection capabilities of Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ to cover unusual or unexpected driving conditions.
Oil change intervals can be as short as 3,000 miles or as long as 15,000 miles on some new cars. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™'s high-performance reserves can give you the confidence to go the full mileage or time frame recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is especially suitable for the latest vehicles with extended drain intervals or vehicles with oil monitoring systems that vary oil drain intervals."
This is from the Mobil 1 current website referring to the SL GF-3 version...sounds a lot the the new extended drain.
MolaKule
Staff member
Yes, generally they serve the same function and more. They may not only serve as AW agents, but multifunctionally serve also as antioxidants, metal deactivators, copper corrosion inhibitors, etc.
In answer to MotorBike, one of the Z,S compounds might be ZDADTC in sulferized Olefin, or ZDTC.
Boron and phosphorus may eminate from phosphorylated borons, boron amides with phosphorus, or any number of compounds, etc.
Each formulator in each company seems to have their own philosophy about which compounds work best in THEIR formulation.
What we see here, coupled with the oil no longer being A5/B5 rated makes me think we're looking at an inferior oil vs. the old SL version.
More and more it's looking like the "new" EP oils are just rebottled and slightly modified SL M1 and the real new product is the "standard" M1 with it's reduced additve package.
If that's true my opinion of Exxon/Mobil just dropped into Castrol territory...
It seems they no longer make an A5 rated 0w-30
Could very well be. I asked Mobil tech about this today. He said it's 50%/37% more then the GF-3 Mobil 1. He didn't sound too confident though.
Even still, is GF-4 a 50% reduction in Supersyn and are anti-wear additives 37% lower with the new GF-4? If so, it really is clever marketing to those not in the know.
We should know by tomorrow as milrl should have a VOA for us.
I'm looking forward to seeing the VOA's, but more looking forward to some UOA's on the SM/GF-4 versions. As we've seen with GC, VOA's don't tell us enough and I really hope some of our suspicions are incorrect.
It might be clever marketing now, but sooner or later it will erode the premium brand reputation that M1 has always had IMO. It's always been a product that was made with premium basestocks and had a premium additive package. Reduce the additive levels too far and we'll be left with an oil with no advantage other than a higher quality basestock. Not a bad thing, but not worth $5 a quart either for what might amount to Drive Clean 7500 with a full PAO basestock. It sure makes the Havoline and Motorcraft for $1.50 look like real bargains, or the "standard" M1 look *way* overpriced...
That sounds like what is going on. Mobil is comparing the new Extended Performance oils with the new Mobil 1 GF-4 formulations. I doubt the new Extended Performance have 50% more Supersyn and 37% more anti-wear additives over the old SL/GF-3 formulations.
You are right on Bobert!!
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