and:
So you are saying GC and M1 are out of spec?
ASTM data, ATM,GC,M1,RL
- Thread starter Terry
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If Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30 has HT/HS = 3.45, then it's out of all API and OEM specs indicated on its label and considerably below own measurement indicated in PDS.
With such HT/HS the stuff could be named Formula Longtec, GM and TopUp that meet both, GM-LL-A-025 and GM-LL-B-025. May be Castrol makes one stuff that fits all, just different labels ?
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With such HT/HS the stuff could be named Formula Longtec, GM and TopUp that meet both, GM-LL-A-025 and GM-LL-B-025. May be Castrol makes one stuff that fits all, just different labels ?
FYI:
HIGH TEMPERATURE / HIGH SHEAR RATE VISCOSITY
There are four test methods I found for measurement of this property. Each method evaluates engine oil viscosity by subjecting it to conditions of high shear rate (1x10^6/s) and high temperature (150 degrees C).
ASTM D4683 and CEC L-36-A-97 utilizes a motor driven tapered rotor that is closely
fitted in a matched stator. The rotor exhibits a reactive torque response when it
encounters a viscous resistance from an oil filling the gap between the rotor and stator.
The unit is calibrated with reference oils.
ASTM D4624 utilizes a capillary viscometer which responds to the apparent shear rate
at the walls of the capillary as determined by the pressure drop and flow rate through
the capillary under desired conditions. This unit is also calibrated using reference oil.
There's also CEC L-36-A-90 (ASTM D4741) and D5481.
I've read API uses ASTM D4683, CEC L-36-A-90 (ASTM D4741) or D5481 for J300 classifications.
Update. Found these on the ASTM website:
D4683-04 Standard Test Method for Measuring Viscosity at High Shear Rate and High Temperature by Tapered Bearing Simulator
D4741-00 Standard Test Method for Measuring Viscosity at High Temperature and High Shear Rate by Tapered-Plug Viscometer
D5481-04 Standard Test Method for Measuring Apparent Viscosity at High-Temperature and High-Shear Rate by Multicell Capillary Viscometer
WITHDRAWN STANDARD: D4624-93 (1998) Standard Test Method for Measuring Apparent Viscosity by Capillary Viscometer at High Temperature and High-Shear Rates (Withdrawn 2004)
[ December 29, 2004, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
HIGH TEMPERATURE / HIGH SHEAR RATE VISCOSITY
There are four test methods I found for measurement of this property. Each method evaluates engine oil viscosity by subjecting it to conditions of high shear rate (1x10^6/s) and high temperature (150 degrees C).
ASTM D4683 and CEC L-36-A-97 utilizes a motor driven tapered rotor that is closely
fitted in a matched stator. The rotor exhibits a reactive torque response when it
encounters a viscous resistance from an oil filling the gap between the rotor and stator.
The unit is calibrated with reference oils.
ASTM D4624 utilizes a capillary viscometer which responds to the apparent shear rate
at the walls of the capillary as determined by the pressure drop and flow rate through
the capillary under desired conditions. This unit is also calibrated using reference oil.
There's also CEC L-36-A-90 (ASTM D4741) and D5481.
I've read API uses ASTM D4683, CEC L-36-A-90 (ASTM D4741) or D5481 for J300 classifications.
Update. Found these on the ASTM website:
D4683-04 Standard Test Method for Measuring Viscosity at High Shear Rate and High Temperature by Tapered Bearing Simulator
D4741-00 Standard Test Method for Measuring Viscosity at High Temperature and High Shear Rate by Tapered-Plug Viscometer
D5481-04 Standard Test Method for Measuring Apparent Viscosity at High-Temperature and High-Shear Rate by Multicell Capillary Viscometer
WITHDRAWN STANDARD: D4624-93 (1998) Standard Test Method for Measuring Apparent Viscosity by Capillary Viscometer at High Temperature and High-Shear Rates (Withdrawn 2004)
[ December 29, 2004, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
In the past European PDS refered to CEC L-36-A-88, but now to CEC L-36-A-97. If I am not mistaken this change occured at the time of ACEA 98 introduction.
Happy New Year.....Updated data on RL 10w-30 SJ,CH4,A3,B3 12/28/04.
Remember when viewing this data;
#1 the brand/source is blinded to the testing lab
#2 compare the test results here to others collected not to promotional company data
#3 these samples are pulled from off the shelf stock at random and I guarantee quality & production allows variability.
#4 there have been multiple tests of each formula that shows variability within the brand. ( I didn't share that here.
Start vis 5735 cP
Pump vis 11200 cP
Gelation Index 9.6
Operating vis 3.62 cP
Oxiation resistance >300 min
Volatility 5.66%
Shear Stability 0% thats not a typo
Acid resistance 10.9 mg/g
We have a domestic sourced "German Castrol" Syntec 0w-30 in testing now to compare to the Belgium sourced SLX above.
I will post it for cost of the testing.Christmas is over.
Remember when viewing this data;
#1 the brand/source is blinded to the testing lab
#2 compare the test results here to others collected not to promotional company data
#3 these samples are pulled from off the shelf stock at random and I guarantee quality & production allows variability.
#4 there have been multiple tests of each formula that shows variability within the brand. ( I didn't share that here.
Start vis 5735 cP
Pump vis 11200 cP
Gelation Index 9.6
Operating vis 3.62 cP
Oxiation resistance >300 min
Volatility 5.66%
Shear Stability 0% thats not a typo
Acid resistance 10.9 mg/g
We have a domestic sourced "German Castrol" Syntec 0w-30 in testing now to compare to the Belgium sourced SLX above.
I will post it for cost of the testing.Christmas is over.
Thanks Terry. Here's hoping you had a Merry Christmas and wishing you a Happy New Year.
I'm guessing not being involved in the API certification program allows them a little more latitude?
Aren't those Gelation Index numbers kinda' meaningless without the associated temperature, or are those numbers at the 40,000 cP limit?
ASTM gives no assigned gelation unit of measurement. The D5133 is the method used. I don't have that spec in front of me to derive the #'s. Its a 2 day test slowly cooling the lube @ 1C per hour rotating the tube of oil with installed rotor at 0.3 RPM.
ILSAC calls for 12 or less when tested @ a range of -5C to -40C.
Happy New Year to you 427 and to all. This has been a tough one for me I hope 2005 is better.
TD
ILSAC calls for 12 or less when tested @ a range of -5C to -40C.
Happy New Year to you 427 and to all. This has been a tough one for me I hope 2005 is better.
TD
From the ASTM website:
D5133-01 Standard Test Method for Low Temperature, Low Shear Rate, Viscosity/Temperature Dependence of Lubricating Oils Using a Temperature-Scanning Technique
1.1 This test method was developed to measure the apparent viscosity of engine oil at low temperatures.
1.2 A shear rate of approximately 0.2 s-1 is produced at shear stresses below 100 Pa. Apparent viscosity is measured continuously as the sample is cooled at a rate of 1°C/h over the range -5 to -40°C, or to the temperature at which the viscosity exceeds 40 000 mPas (cP).
1.3 The measurements resulting from this test method are viscosity, the maximum rate of viscosity increase (Gelation Index) and the temperature at which the Gelation Index occurs.
Terry, sorry to hear you had a rough year. My year got rough lately too, since my job moved overseas. Middle-aged + job seeking = No fun
D5133-01 Standard Test Method for Low Temperature, Low Shear Rate, Viscosity/Temperature Dependence of Lubricating Oils Using a Temperature-Scanning Technique
1.1 This test method was developed to measure the apparent viscosity of engine oil at low temperatures.
1.2 A shear rate of approximately 0.2 s-1 is produced at shear stresses below 100 Pa. Apparent viscosity is measured continuously as the sample is cooled at a rate of 1°C/h over the range -5 to -40°C, or to the temperature at which the viscosity exceeds 40 000 mPas (cP).
1.3 The measurements resulting from this test method are viscosity, the maximum rate of viscosity increase (Gelation Index) and the temperature at which the Gelation Index occurs.
Terry, sorry to hear you had a rough year. My year got rough lately too, since my job moved overseas. Middle-aged + job seeking = No fun
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