New Mobil 1 R VOA

buster · Feb 25, 2004

Aluminum 0
Chromium 0
Iron 1
Copper 0
Lead 0
Tin 0
Moly 78
Nickel 0
Maganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 178
Silicon 5
Sodium 14
Calcium 3024

Magnesium 13
Phosphorus 1399

Zinc 1536

Barium 0

SUS 62.3
Flash 435

TBN 13.5

Regardless of Mobil's lower HT/HS, I still think this oil will kick @ss. For peace of mind, I'd like their oils to be A3 rated, but in all honesty, I don't think it matters. I never see M1 shear out of grade anymore and in fact I bet if you compiled all the UOA's on this site, you'd find it to be as shear stable as any other except maybe RL. M1 0w-20 seems to be doing quite fine with it's 2.6 HT/HS.

[ February 25, 2004, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

SSDude · Feb 25, 2004

It look similar to Synergyn's additive package.

Synergyn 3w-30

Moly 116

Boron 153

Calcium 3,687

Zinc 1701

Silicone 8

visc. 11.3cst @ 100C

The main difference is that Synergyn uses a group IV and group V basestock and has a TBN of 9.74

buster · Feb 25, 2004

For racing, Redline and Synergyn seem to be the way to go. And to think how long RL and Synergyn have been formulating like this is impressive.

I took this qt and added it to my 15w-50/5w-30 mix. It should be a 12.8cSt oil with lots of ZDP. This is my top up oil I'm using now.

[ February 25, 2004, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

G-MAN · Feb 25, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by SSDude:
The main difference is that Synergyn uses a group IV and group V basestock and has a TBN of 9.74

Uh...Mobil 1 uses Group IV and Group V, too.

Last_Z · Feb 25, 2004

buster,
Thanks for the VOA!
You know, looking at this VOA it is really impossible to say for sure if this is a highly additized version of the regular 0W-30 or a different animal altogether.

The MSDS might suggest it is the same and it probably is......but neither is conclusive proof.

I wonder what is raising the TBN so much? The high calcium, Zinc and bit of magnesium, all combined in one oil?

[ February 25, 2004, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Last_Z ]

pruizgarcia · Feb 25, 2004

I like it. Going to try it out after my run with Amsoil 5w30.

Pedro

G-MAN · Feb 25, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Last_Z:
I wonder what is raising the TBN so much? The high calcium, Zinc and bit of magnesium, all combined in one oil?

Actually, this high TBN is the one thing that makes me think the base oil may actually contain something "special," like the next generation esters that Molakule has told us about that ExxonMobil has developed.

SSDude · Feb 25, 2004

G-Man II,

I thought that M1 was PAO and did not contain group V.

G-MAN · Feb 25, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by SSDude:
G-Man II,

I thought that M1 was PAO and did not contain group V.

This was a rumor that was started here last year by two posters who have never been able to back it up with any facts or data. As Molakule, myself, and others have pointed out, once you understand what goes into formulating a fully sythetic motor oil, as well as the inherent characteristics of PAO, you quickly understand why no facts or data will be forthcoming to prove that Mobil 1 is all PAO with no esters.

Primus · Feb 25, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by G-Man II:

This was a rumor that was started here last year by two posters who have never been able to back it up with any facts or data.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Apparently I was one of these two posters

Indeed, I wrote:
"Most probably SS does not contain esters at all or their percentage was reduced till 1-2 %. Everything indicates that now the base stock is PAO and, depending on oil weight, this or that percentage of alkylated aromatics (probably Dialkylbenzene) and HC. Suppose 0W-20 and 0W-30 is made of PAO + AA, but 5W-30, 10W-30 and 15W-50 - PAO + HC. ...

Like any other manufacturer Mobil is driven by competition and therefore needs to reduce cost. If, 3 years ago in Europe all 5W-40 oils (except Shell Helix Ultra and Castrol) were really 100 % synthetic and contained 85-90 % of PAO in their base stocks, now nearly all of them are called "synthetic technology" oils."

And in reply to your fair remark:
"G-Man II, I agree that the word "everything" was incorrect: I am not a competitor's lab to find exact composition. Was better to say indirect signs: lower flash point and HT/HS, higher pour point, different specific gravity plus general lubricants industry trend."

Just it was neccessary to add a higher evaporation loss (NOACK) to indirect signs.

But it would be unfair to claim SS contains esters because for the moment nobody yet was "able to back it up with any data or facts" too.

I though we had already agreed that a base stock used in this or that oil has a secondary importance for a quality level and cannot predetermine its final performance.

G-MAN · Feb 25, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Primus:
Apparently I was one of these two posters

Indeed, I wrote:
"Most probably SS does not contain esters at all or their percentage was reduced till 1-2 %. Everything indicates that now the base stock is PAO and, depending on oil weight, this or that percentage of alkylated aromatics (probably Dialkylbenzene) and HC. Suppose 0W-20 and 0W-30 is made of PAO + AA, but 5W-30, 10W-30 and 15W-50 - PAO + HC. ...

Was better to say indirect signs: lower flash point and HT/HS, higher pour point, different specific gravity plus general lubricants industry trend."

Just it was neccessary to add a higher evaporation loss (NOACK) to indirect signs.

But it would be unfair to claim SS contains esters because for the moment nobody yet was "able to back it up with any data or facts" too.

Actually, you weren't one of the two.

The higher pour point, etc is easily accounted for by the addition of the high viscosity SuperySyn PAO to the base oil blend. When SL/GF-3 came out, the pour points of both Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 went up. I don't see anyone claiming Delvac 1 is now all PAO. As for any grade of Mobil 1 containing HC base oil "Group III," I think that is ridiculous given Mobil's continued position that only Group IV and V are really synthetics. When SuperSyn came out I called Mobil's tech line twice and asked about this. Both times I was told unequivocally that Mobil 1 does not contain Group III.

In closing, I think it's perfectly fair to expect someone to back up a proposition with proof. You have given what you consider circumstantial evidence that Mobil 1 is all PAO (and HC). I contend that this same evidence can be accounted for without resorting to believeing that there is only PAO in the base oil blend. As for HC, I don't think there is any evidence at all that Mobil 1 has Group III in it.

buster · Feb 26, 2004

Mobil has told me that their oils are only Grp IV and V and nothing else. They are about 85% PAO wih 15% ester (grp V).

Doug Hillary · Feb 26, 2004

Hi,
Buster - I believe that Delvac 1 has about 26% Ester content

Regards

buster · Feb 27, 2004

The only thing that concerns me with this oil is it's volatility. Mobil 1 0w-30 was the oil that many had consumption issues with. I'm curious to see how this oil is.

Primus · Feb 28, 2004

Seems we were not alone to ask questions about SS formulation and properties. Just found:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=313674&page=3
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=313674&page=4

buster · Mar 5, 2004

M1R is designed to have a low HT/HS. From a HP perspective, it makes sense. After continued use on a NASCAR track, the oil will possibly thin a bit, or thicken slightly so your not loosing as much HP compared to an oil with a 3.6 HT/HS that might thicken to a 40wt and cost you HP. It makes sense actually. In 2003 70% of NASCAR was using this oil. Thats a pretty impressive figure.

Jelly · Mar 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by buster:
M1R is designed to have a low HT/HS. From a HP perspective, it makes sense. After continued use on a NASCAR track, the oil will possibly thin a bit, or thicken slightly so your not loosing as much HP compared to an oil with a 3.6 HT/HS that might thicken to a 40wt and cost you HP. It makes sense actually. In 2003 70% of NASCAR was using this oil. Thats a pretty impressive figure.

Buster,

I love you bud, but with all due respect, I don't give a hoot about what oil NASCAR is running.

This oil probably works great in racing applications that demands every, single horsepower, but are you rebuilding your street-driven engine every 500 miles?

In street-driven vehicles, I'll take a thicker viscosity and higher HT/HS numbers.

buster · Mar 5, 2004

You make a good point. But what about Mobil's 30wt oils that are A1/B5 rated? They are clearly capable of extended drains. I do see your point though and having an A3 rated oil over the long haul might be more ideal.

jason07-1zzfe · Mar 7, 2004

Twice as much money for more ZDDP? I don't get it

This oil has the EXACT same physical specs as the regular 0w-30 and you are going to tell me it is a different formulation??
And to think of how excited some of us got.
You wonder why people are cynical...

buster · Mar 8, 2004

Avlube is selling the oil for $6.86qt. I'd say it's mostly likely just a highly additized M1. If it performs like I've been hearing, then it's worth it. Think about it. Redline($7) and S2k ($8.50)maybe shine 50% of the time. Regular Mobil 1 shows some of the best bearing (Pb) wear of any oil and never shears out of grade. Add ZDP of some form to this equation and I can see why it's used by many in NASCAR. If not, we will soon find out through UOA's on this website.

New Mobil 1 R VOA

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