Virgin Amsoil 10w40

1maniac · Dec 18, 2003

PROPERTIES
ALUMINUM=1
CHROMIUM=0
IRON=2
COPPER=1
LEAD=0
TIN=0
MOLYBDENUM=0
NICKEL=0
MANGANESE=0
SILVER=0
TITANIUM=0
POTASSIUM=0
BORON=0
SILICON=3
SODIUM=1
CALCIUM=4342
MAGNESIUM=9
PHOSPHORUS=911
ZINC=1040
BARIUM=0

Viscosity@210f=75.2
Flashpoint=475
Fuel=0
Antifreeze=0
Water=0
Insolubles=0

TBN=12.8

Blackstone did the analysis.

buster · Dec 18, 2003

strong tbn, lots of calcium and a decent amount of zddp. cool, thanks.

Here is what I want to know, why doesn't Amsoil use Moly and more if any Boron? Is it not needed or are they in the stone age?

As I've said before, Jim V. from amsoil said they use a very basic, (but generous) additive package and focus more on the base stock (longer drains). Makes sense.

[ December 18, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

Last_Z · Dec 18, 2003

Good TBN....that should be good for well over 10k miles in just about any vehicle.

medic · Dec 18, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by buster:
strong tbn, lots of calcium and a decent amount of zddp. cool, thanks.

Here is what I want to know, why doesn't Amsoil use Moly and more if any Boron? Is it not needed or are they in the stone age?

They do use Boron, but obviously not in this oil. I'd say, from looking at past UOA's it isn't needed.

My problem is the low zinc & phosphorus levels (again). Amsoils site shows zinc at 1270 & phosphorus at 1150. Is Blackstone typically showing low levels of zinc and phos?

I was gonna run the 20w-50 in my motorcycle next year considering that Amsoil states "AMSOIL Synthetic Motorcycle Oils are specially formulated with high levels of zinc and phosphorous for superior protection of cam lobes and other high pressure components. In fact, AMSOIL Synthetic Motorcycle Oils contain more zinc and phosphorous than other popular motorcycle oils". We all know that the Amsoil motorcycle oils are the same oil with a different label - I might stick with Redline.

nick778 · Dec 18, 2003

Where did all the magnesium go? It is interesting that Amsoil's ASL/ATM xxw-30 products have hefty amounts of magnesium and an recent increase in boron where their 10w-40 oil has almost none of these additives. M1's additive package, on the other hand, is fairly consistent across its entire line of automotive synthetic oils.

[ December 19, 2003, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: nick778 ]

Alex D · Dec 19, 2003

TS,
I can only find two 20W-50s from Amsoil, the S2K and the motorcycle oil. They seem to be different in viscosities.

I didn't know there was a S3K 20W-50?? Do you have a data sheet, 'cause there is no such oil on the Amsoil web site.

Also, the 20W-50 Synthetic ARO does not pull up anymore on the dealer zone data sheets.

quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
The Amsoil 10w-40 is SL/CI-4 rated and uses a similar additive chemistry to their other HD diesel engine oils ....They have never used more than 50 ppm of Magnesium in this formulation.

The calcium based additive chemistry is intended to minimize high temp piston deposits and ring sticking in diesel engines, and air/water cooled motorcycle engines that run very hot.

The XL-7500 Series, GP III oils use a similar add pack, and a organic friction modifier that doesn't show up in oil analysis tests...

The 5w-30/10w-30, SL/CF rated formulations use a similar add pack w/ Boron ...

The S2000, 0w-30/20w-50 use a similar add pack w/ boron ...

The Series 3000, 5w-30, the 10w-40, 15w-40 and 20w-50 High Performance formulations use a similar add pack and no friction modifier - that's why they are all "JASO MA" rated, for use in wet clutch motorcycles ...

The SJ/CF rated, 0w-40 Four Stroke oil uses lots of ZDDP but less Ca and Mg, with a TBN of about 9.5. It also is JASO MA rated and not friction modified.

ToyotaNSaturn · Dec 19, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:

The XL-7500 Series, GP III oils use a similar add pack, and a organic friction modifier that doesn't show up in oil analysis tests...

TS, Would then it be worth having a UOA performed on this oil? I wonder if there's more chemistry that's not being reported in UOAs that have an effect on the life of the oil.

TooSlick · Dec 19, 2003

The Amsoil 10w-40 is SL/CI-4 rated and uses a similar additive chemistry to their other HD diesel engine oils ....They have never used more than 50 ppm of Magnesium in this formulation.

The calcium based additive chemistry is intended to minimize high temp piston deposits and ring sticking in diesel engines, and air/water cooled motorcycle engines that run very hot.

The XL-7500 Series, GP III oils use a similar add pack, and a organic friction modifier that doesn't show up in oil analysis tests...

The 5w-30/10w-30, SL/CF rated formulations use a similar add pack w/ Boron ...

The S2000, 0w-30/20w-50 use a similar add pack w/ boron ...

The Series 3000, 5w-30, the 10w-40, 15w-40 and 20w-50 High Performance formulations use a similar add pack and no friction modifier - that's why they are all "JASO MA" rated, for use in wet clutch motorcycles ...

The SJ/CF rated, 0w-40 Four Stroke oil uses lots of ZDDP but less Ca and Mg, with a TBN of about 9.5. It also is JASO MA rated and not friction modified.

[ December 19, 2003, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]

TooSlick · Dec 19, 2003

The basestock of the XL-7500 series oils was changed from a PAO to a high quality, GP III last year. I don't know where they source the GP III, but I wouldnt be surprised to find it comes from Petro Canada or Royal Dutch Shell, ie their UHVI slack wax base.

The additive chemistry of the current XL-7500 series oil was improved at the same time the basestock switch was made. The original PAO based oil had a TBN of 9.0, vs about 10.5 for the current formulation. I have been selling a fair amount of the 5w-20 for Ford/Honda applications and have had good field reports on it. I have to say however, that I'd personally use the Amsoil 0w-30 in any application calling for a 5w-20, since the S2000 is an even more robust formulation and the 0w-30 "brackets" the OEM vis recommendation.

Ted

Alex D · Dec 20, 2003

I totally agree here. The S2K 0W-30 is THE oil for Ford SOHC engines.

quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
The basestock of the XL-7500 series oils was changed from a PAO to a high quality, GP III last year. I don't know where they source the GP III, but I wouldnt be surprised to find it comes from Petro Canada or Royal Dutch Shell, ie their UHVI slack wax base.

The additive chemistry of the current XL-7500 series oil was improved at the same time the basestock switch was made. The original PAO based oil had a TBN of 9.0, vs about 10.5 for the current formulation. I have been selling a fair amount of the 5w-20 for Ford/Honda applications and have had good field reports on it. I have to say however, that I'd personally use the Amsoil 0w-30 in any application calling for a 5w-20, since the S2000 is an even more robust formulation and the 0w-30 "brackets" the OEM vis recommendation.

Ted

Motorbike · Jan 8, 2004

That sure looks like the AMF Motorcycle oil to me since it has no Magnesium and other adds are different like the Calcium and Zinc along with a bit higher Vi @ 100c 14.3 " Should be 14.7 " than the AMO 10/40 .

Heres virgin 20/50 M/C oil , notice the lack of substancial Magnesium also .

Boron 0
Silicon 5
Sodium 2
Calcium 3852
Magnesium 9
Phosphorus 946
Zinc 1031

Heres the AMO 10/40 used in Tooslicks Audi , notice the posted baseline Vi along with the substancial Mag and less Calcium

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000681

Heres the AMO in a Subaru with the same add pack as Tooslicks AMO

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000559#000000

Heres the data sheet for the AMF 10/40 M/C oil

http://www.amsoil.com/products/amf.htm

And the data sheet for the AMO 10/40 High Performance

http://www.amsoil.com/products/amo.html

There is a difference in the AMO and AMF oils , it's not simply a repackage product . There two more current AMO analysis here that I did not post . I thought with this and both the virgin and used analysis from a workout in my " Motorbike " get it

we could lay this to rest .

[ January 08, 2004, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

TooSlick · Jan 9, 2004

The 10w-40 and the 20w-50 don't use the exact same additive chemistry and never have. The 10w-40 has been around for years, and the 20w-50 is derived from Amsoils' original racing oil which had bright stock in it.

The AMF and AMO are the same stuff - take a look at the MSDS on their website....

buster · Jan 9, 2004

What the hell is bright stock?

1maniac · Jan 9, 2004

Didn't someone else just post that the 10w40 and 20w50 motorcylce oils are just rebadged bottles with Amsoil's regular 10w40 and 20w50? I searched but couldn't pinpoint it.

1maniac · Jan 9, 2004

Oops! Must be cold PA weather causing brain freeze

. AMF and AMO are the same.

Motorbike · Jan 9, 2004

Well Ted I tried to get you squared away on 2 of the oils you sell but you will not read ALL the links I posted to see the difference in the additive packs , vi ect ect even your own UOA shows the AMO different than the AMF above... don't ever say I did not try to help you

Now , if Amsoil in merely rebottling an oil and advertising it so to sell it to the motorcycle world without regard to the JASO spec ,friction modifiers and more like you have already posted .... thats not cool and they should change their website information .

Motorbike · Jan 9, 2004

Tooslicks post from another thread :

Since that time, there has been a ton of advertising from MC makers about the need for MC specific oils. That's when Amsoil started re-labelling some of their 10w-40/20w-50 as MC oil. I talked at length to an Amsoil Direct Jobber up at the 1998 Oshkosh Air Show about this and he was the one who told me what was going on.

Theres nothing kosher about that in my books .

Based on you post the motorcycle world might be on fire after learning they buy CAR oil for their bikes . So might the actual M/C Dealers that stock it

Motorbike · Jan 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by buster:
What the hell is bright stock?

It's a basestock thickener like the LUCAS oil additive uses

Robbie Alexander · Jan 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Motorbike:

quote:

Originally posted by buster:
What the hell is bright stock?

Click to expand...

It's a basestock thickener like the LUCAS oil additive uses

No... The "low quality" base stocks used in most oils on the market, use Bright Stock. The better oils (dino) use a NEUTRAL oil, as their base stock, there are many many "base stocks" (of both), & many Neutral oils that one can use. The neutral oils are highly refined, and are usually within 1-2% of having all the impurities removed.
The neutral oils also affords a better heat range among other things than the lower quality base stocks (bright Stocks).
A common Bright Stock I would say is 150, there are others as well. Consider it the Dough if you will, that goes into making the bread. Use better dough, and get better bread.

TooSlick · Jan 9, 2004

Motorbike,

With all due respect, you are either the stupidest guy to come out of Texas for some time (at least 3 yrs anyway), or you are just playing dumb - so which is it??? I strongly suspect the latter ....

All these oils are JASO MA rated and always have been. Believe it or not, you sell 100% more of the same formulation with the MC label. One of my accounts sells Ducatis and Moto Guzzi bikes and they request the MC labelled stuff. That's how much your average biker knows about lubrication ...

As President Truman said: "I don't give folks Hell ...I simply tell them the truth and they think it's Hell."

Ted

Virgin Amsoil 10w40

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