VW 505.01, Castrol 5w-40

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TooSlick

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In the interest of science, I bought a qt of this magic elixer for $12.50, plus tax. I'm underwhelmed to say the least - kind of like expecting a date with Brooke Shields and getting Albert Brooks in a dress instead ...
wink.gif



Viscosity @ 100C, 13.7 Cst

Fe, 1 ppm - rusty pipes

Detergent/Dispersant Additives:

Mg, 8 ppm
Ca, 2361 ppm

Anti Wear/Oxidation Inhibitors

P, 1045 ppm
Zn, 1270 ppm

Si, 1 ppm - antifoam additive

Friction Modifiers:

Boron, 0 ppm
Moly, 0 ppm

TBN/ASTM D-4739, 12.15

TS
 
What is there in this oil that makes it worth $12.50.
dunno.gif
I can't imagine that this oil is far better than Mobil 1 0W-40 or Amsoil 10W-40. You can buy 2 quarts of Amsoil or 3 quarts (on slale) of Mobil 1 for the price of this "special VW 505.01 oil." Is this the same 5W-40 Castrol Synthetic oil that some VW and Audi dealers have been selling for years or is this something new?

Thanks TooSlick for posting this VOA.
fruit.gif
 
There is nothing in this oil that makes it better than the Amsoil 10w-40 or Series 3000 for diesel use. It does contain more ZDDP than the Mobil 1, 0w-40, however and it's probably more shear stable as well. In that respect, it's more like a thinner version of Delvac 1.

I think the VW 505.01 spec is 95% marketing and 5% tribology related ....

Based on this analysis and the spec sheet which I've posted, I'd have no quams about running the Amsoil 10w-40 in this application. I'd like to see Amsoil get it tested to meet 505.01, since this stuff is a ripoff.

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
 
Thanks for reporting those stats, TooSlick. Even though the price has come down, I'm still gonna feel really guilty about sellin' this stuff.
frown.gif
 
Castrol's reported visc at 100 C is 14.4 Cst for this oil, so they're a bit off given this VOA, but maybe that's just bottle-to-bottle variation (poor quality control), or lab error.

And yeah, it seems like another money-making machine for Castrol and VAG. They figure if someone can afford a brand new RS6, he can surely afford to pay $12.50/qt of oil as well. RS6 comes with 4yr/50K miles of free maintenance, but still. Not sure which other VAG (and Ford Europe) cars require this oil.
 
QP,

The VW 505.01 spec is basically a license to print $$$$

Tooslick

[ February 15, 2004, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
 
Here's some additional info I found on this oil .

$5.00 per quart - from a distributor
cP -25c 3300 max
pp -33c
vi index 175

The MSDS shows it to have some Pao in it and the HT/HS is listed to be at a whopping 4.5. That's pretty high for a 5/40 motor oil .
 
The kinematic viscosity of the Castrol 5w-40 I tested was only 13.7 Cst @ 100C. That would put the HT/HS viscosity @ approx 3.8-4.0 Cp @ 150C, given the boosted VI of 175. For comparison, the CH-4 version of Delvac 1 was 15.0 Cst, with a HT/HS of 4.1 Cp, and it was and is extremely shear stable ....

A vis of 4.5 Cp is not possible; given the 100C properties, unless Castrol know something I don't about the SOTA of current basestock and VI modifier technology.... Given that their 5w-50 Castrol Syntec is 18.3 Cst @ 100C, with a HT/HS of approx 4.8 Cp @ 150C, it is highly unlikely that is the case ...
wink.gif


Tooslick

[ February 15, 2004, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:


A vis of 4.5 Cp is not possible; given the 100C properties, unless Castrol know something I don't about the SOTA of current basestock and VI modifier technology.... Given that their 5w-50 Castrol Syntec is 18.3 Cst @ 100C, with a HT/HS of approx 4.8 Cp @ 150C, it is highly unlikely that is the case ...
wink.gif


Tooslick
Click to expand...
Heres the method used so I assume it's not just any old oil in this Castrol bottle .

CEC L-36-A-90

resulting in a High Shear Viscosity of 4.5 @150c

[ February 15, 2004, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
 
Not commenting on the numbers other than price. In NYC I've seen this for $5.25 without really looking for it. Expect to be able to get it for $4.99 from Autozone, but haven't made it there yet.
 
I just got an '04 VW TDI Golf that specifically states I need 505.01 rated oil. Besides Motul, are there any other options for me? Although I am sure other non 505.01 oil could work, I have to trust VWs judgement, afterall, they are the ones who built the engine. Where can I get this specific variety of oil as well. Thanks in advance
 
A follow up. Autozone didn't have it. I asked, and they knew nothing about it.

quote:
Originally posted by MikeW:
Not commenting on the numbers other than price. In NYC I've seen this for $5.25 without really looking for it. Expect to be able to get it for $4.99 from Autozone, but haven't made it there yet.
Click to expand...
 
Hi,
TDImonster - a very intelligent approach

As engines become more and more sophisticated they will only tolerate the Manufacturer's "Approved List" oils
These oils have been submitted to the engine builder for specific testing and get/do not get their Approval. They are then added to the list for all to see. If it is NOT on the LIST, do NOT USE IT!
They cannot be jealous of the Brand - it meets the manufacturer's requirements or it doesn't!

This has been the case with diesel engines for many years. Failing to heed this has cost many people millions of dollars. And the engine Manufacturer's Engineers are very skilled at sniffing out the use of incorrect products when warranty issues appear

Recently, Mercedes Benz withdrew approval for Delvac 1 5w-40 in one test engine sequence test. This happended about 12 months ago and it required Mobil to hold up distribution of Del 1 to enable rebranding. This issue was resolved after a reformulation of Del 1 and its subsequent retesting by MB. That is how serious the German manufacturers see it

Invalidating long term warranty to use an oil that has NOT been submitted for APPROVAL is false economy to say the least and foolhardy at the extreme

If it is NOT on the Manufacturer's APPROVED LIST do NOT use it!

Regards
 
Doug Hillary wrote:
quote:
Recently, Mercedes Benz withdrew approval for Delvac 1 5w-40 in one test engine sequence test. This happended about 12 months ago and it required Mobil to hold up distribution of Del 1 to enable rebranding. This issue was resolved after a reformulation of Del 1 and its subsequent retesting by MB. That is how serious the German manufacturers see it
Click to expand...
Doug, or anyone else, do you remember which MB test sequence D1 failed?
 
FYI - A recent visit to the local VW dealership revealed new packaging for thier 505.01 oil. The grey "Castrol" 1ltr bottle is gone and has been replaced by a white "VW/Audi" bottle. The multi-lingual description states "High Lubricity Engine Oil" with no mention of Castrol whatsoever. The original VW part# has remained unchanged.
Well, at least the price has come down from out of the clouds.
 
Just a little elaboration of the text on the new 505.01 packaging:

"High lubricity engine oil
The most modern additives and base fluid technology for a high performance. For vehicles without extended service intervals. Approved in accordance with VW 505 01, VW 505 00, VW 500 00. See vehicle documents."
"Made in Germany"

Also, the oil in the new white bottles has the same distinctive sweet smell as the old grey bottle stuff.
 
I can't recall exactly what the limiter was but I believe it was an incredibly low ash for some insane reason: thus heavily additized oils such as Delvac 1 will not pass muster.. i.e. a fairly low additization level meets/exceeds the spec, however, in the long term, certainly not a long term oil! They basically just pass the additive wand over the kettle... And yes, a license to print money indeed.
George Morrison
 
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