I race Motocross! My question is when you buy a new chain it has a thick grease on it. I would like to know how to get the best lubrication back on the chain. I soak the chain to get all of the impurities of it then let it dry.I then immediately soak it in transmission oil, then wipe off the excess. It works well however the lubrication doesn't last. OK NOW THE QUESTION! Is there a grease that can be heated up to make it flow? Then the chain can be dropped into it for maximun penetration. Obviously when it taken out and removed it would act like a wax coating. What would be the best way to do this? Parafin wax heated?
Motorcycle Chains!
- Thread starter Wes Woodin
- Start date
- Status
Read this thread. in between the bickering there is some great info that makes alot of sense.
Think about this for a few minutes. Most oils, greases and waxes don't have much in the way of load carrying capacity unless they're replenished. Oils, greases and some waxes are good at collecting abrasives, which is bad for your chain & sprockets and they can easily washed off your chain.
For MX or other types of off road racing, you want a dry film chain lube. A good dry film chain lube does NOT attract particulate, does NOT easily wash off and it uses some type of barrier protection to minimize wear in addition to having other qualities (i.e. cleaning, lubrication, etc). There's plenty of good dry film lubes to choose from such as Ultra Film or Schaeffer's 227 Moly Roller Chain Lube, etc. Your chain & sprockets will last longer and you won't have to worry about your countershaft cavity caking up with filth / crud when using a good dry film chain lube.
For MX or other types of off road racing, you want a dry film chain lube. A good dry film chain lube does NOT attract particulate, does NOT easily wash off and it uses some type of barrier protection to minimize wear in addition to having other qualities (i.e. cleaning, lubrication, etc). There's plenty of good dry film lubes to choose from such as Ultra Film or Schaeffer's 227 Moly Roller Chain Lube, etc. Your chain & sprockets will last longer and you won't have to worry about your countershaft cavity caking up with filth / crud when using a good dry film chain lube.
I did read that post. Is there a dry film lube that the chain can be dropped into to soak for maximum protection? Then when removed it will be dry?
Contact Jaybird from the long thread. He seems to really know his stuff and can get you hooked up with some really good chain lube. Not sure about the soaking part- may not be entirely necessary. Anyhow contact him- he's got tons of experience in this field and was very willing to help me.
Soaking chains is an old-school practice that isn't very practical.
Fluid films, be they grease or a thinner oil, need to be replentished, as they will be slung out of the friction areas real fast.
So, many would use a thicker grease or oil and soak them so the lubricant could penetrate into the friction areas. Many even heated the oil.
The answer by most chain lube co's was to start adding tackifier to the mix, which does indeed keep the fluid there longer, but it also brought other problems to the table. Such as now being a great attractor of dirt and grit, which will eat a chain fast.
Many times a chain lube will have a solvent as well as a tackifier, and the solvent helps the mix to "set-up" real fast. Problem is that these type lubes could set up on each side of the reel, at the pin/bushing openings, before the lube actually penetrates all the way across the pin/bushing area (many times creating pressure in the middle keeping the lube on both sides pushed out). Leaving you with two clogged ends, and a great place in between for wear to occur. Not to mention the great dirt magnet, and the fact that the tackifier itself takes up precious room for good lube.
Another big problem was the mess these type of lubes create. You riders know exactly what I'm talking about here. It is real tough to get some of these lubes cleaned off your bike and its parts, including the chain itself.
Many times this hassle would keep riders from providing the level of cleaning and maintenance that they should.
Many would go back to the old motor oil method, especially since many manuals even today recommend using a 90wt gear oil or similar fluid for the chain lube.
Problem is, a fluid film must maintain at least .001" of thickness between the mating parts to be able to protect from wear. Once this film has been depleted, there is precious little boundary additives in the small amount of fluid to continue to protect.
This depletion also occurs in just a very few revolutions.
The answer is to use a barrier lubricant.
Dry-films are basicaly a solvent base carrier with a massive dose of barrier lubricant, such as moly (MoS2), or other chemo-absorbable products.
The light solvent carrier will evaporate soon after application, leaving these polar solids and chemo-absorbable materials adhered to the friction sufaces of the chain.
With such a barrier lubricant in place, there is no need to maintain a fluid film between the parts, as the lubricating materials are now residing at the oxide layer of the metal, and ready to perform when heat and load present themselves.
The polar nature of these materials also helps them to stay in place, and resist washout, MUCH longer than any fluid film type product can.
And as there are no tackifiers to make a great mess, cleaning of a dry-film is as easy as a wipe with a clean rag.
There are a few "dry-films" that will actually be completely dry once the carrier has evaporated, but with the use of elastomeric sealing rings in some chains, dry-films that are designed for moto use will also have very small amounts of oils in them, which will normally not let the fluid "comletely" dry out. This is designed to help keep the sealing rings supple.
Semi-dry-film would probably be a more correct term.
Fluid films, be they grease or a thinner oil, need to be replentished, as they will be slung out of the friction areas real fast.
So, many would use a thicker grease or oil and soak them so the lubricant could penetrate into the friction areas. Many even heated the oil.
The answer by most chain lube co's was to start adding tackifier to the mix, which does indeed keep the fluid there longer, but it also brought other problems to the table. Such as now being a great attractor of dirt and grit, which will eat a chain fast.
Many times a chain lube will have a solvent as well as a tackifier, and the solvent helps the mix to "set-up" real fast. Problem is that these type lubes could set up on each side of the reel, at the pin/bushing openings, before the lube actually penetrates all the way across the pin/bushing area (many times creating pressure in the middle keeping the lube on both sides pushed out). Leaving you with two clogged ends, and a great place in between for wear to occur. Not to mention the great dirt magnet, and the fact that the tackifier itself takes up precious room for good lube.
Another big problem was the mess these type of lubes create. You riders know exactly what I'm talking about here. It is real tough to get some of these lubes cleaned off your bike and its parts, including the chain itself.
Many times this hassle would keep riders from providing the level of cleaning and maintenance that they should.
Many would go back to the old motor oil method, especially since many manuals even today recommend using a 90wt gear oil or similar fluid for the chain lube.
Problem is, a fluid film must maintain at least .001" of thickness between the mating parts to be able to protect from wear. Once this film has been depleted, there is precious little boundary additives in the small amount of fluid to continue to protect.
This depletion also occurs in just a very few revolutions.
The answer is to use a barrier lubricant.
Dry-films are basicaly a solvent base carrier with a massive dose of barrier lubricant, such as moly (MoS2), or other chemo-absorbable products.
The light solvent carrier will evaporate soon after application, leaving these polar solids and chemo-absorbable materials adhered to the friction sufaces of the chain.
With such a barrier lubricant in place, there is no need to maintain a fluid film between the parts, as the lubricating materials are now residing at the oxide layer of the metal, and ready to perform when heat and load present themselves.
The polar nature of these materials also helps them to stay in place, and resist washout, MUCH longer than any fluid film type product can.
And as there are no tackifiers to make a great mess, cleaning of a dry-film is as easy as a wipe with a clean rag.
There are a few "dry-films" that will actually be completely dry once the carrier has evaporated, but with the use of elastomeric sealing rings in some chains, dry-films that are designed for moto use will also have very small amounts of oils in them, which will normally not let the fluid "comletely" dry out. This is designed to help keep the sealing rings supple.
Semi-dry-film would probably be a more correct term.
I ordered a dry film lubricant off of Jaybir called MX1000 for my cr and it is the best stuff i've come across yet. I'm not in any way affiliated with Jaybird, he's just a local sponsor guy on www.dirtrider.net and that's where i heard of this lube.
Amsoil HDMP, goes on wet, dries to a wax coating works great in MX or street applications. Plus it's cheap too, usually half the price of the so called "motorcycle chain lubes".
The Dupont Multi Purpose Spray Lube in the tool section at Lowes works pretty well. It sprays on like WD40 then dries to a dry film. It leaves the chain looking nice and clean and does not collect road grime like wet lubes.
The problem with using these general purpose ots lubes like DuPont, is that they contain very little barrier adds. Most will be silicone or Teflon. Teflon is a good AW add, but it falls short on the EP side of things.
But a penetrating solvent base ots fluid is better to use, IMO, than any of the goos or waxes. They protect the sideplates from corrosion just fine,...but sideplate corrosion has zero to do with the wear surfaces of the chain.
I would use a moly spray from the farm implement shelf before I would use ANY moto specific parrafin wax.
Wax coatings will not penetrate well. In fact most of them recommend using it when the chain is warm so it will penetrate better. Problem is, these same lubes will recommend you NOT lube the chain when it is dirty. They also recommend that you let the goo set for 2 hours or so, as to give it time to dry up.
OK...if it takes a clean chain, you must clean it first. Then how do I run the bike to warm the chain up to be able to lube it warm? I run my chain with no lube simply so I can lube with something that won't alllow me to lube again until I get the chain cleaned? If you do lube when the chain is dirty, you WILL be collecting dirt and keeping it where you do not want it.
You see what I'm saying here?
And besides these sort of cosmolene-ish surface protectants (whish is really all they are to begin with) being a bad choice for those who ride more than a tank of fuel in a day, try running ANY of these sorts of parrafin or tackifier rich petro lubes on a Timkin or pin&vee test. The miserable results will open your eyes.
I realise this is an Amsoil rich place...but there goo is no better than Maxima or other goos.
They provide the rider with the same results, messes that are hard to clean off.And very little protection for the long term..other than sideplate corrosion protection.
Just about any moly lube blows them away.
Solvent pased penetrating lubes can be applied at any time, as they help to clean the surfaces upon application, and deposit a replentishing of moly, or other product.
Cleanup for one of these types of lubes is just a wipe with a rag, but try wiping your goo off with a rag.
If you must, use a moly rich lube first, then coat your plates with the 'cosmolene' of choice.
But a penetrating solvent base ots fluid is better to use, IMO, than any of the goos or waxes. They protect the sideplates from corrosion just fine,...but sideplate corrosion has zero to do with the wear surfaces of the chain.
I would use a moly spray from the farm implement shelf before I would use ANY moto specific parrafin wax.
Wax coatings will not penetrate well. In fact most of them recommend using it when the chain is warm so it will penetrate better. Problem is, these same lubes will recommend you NOT lube the chain when it is dirty. They also recommend that you let the goo set for 2 hours or so, as to give it time to dry up.
OK...if it takes a clean chain, you must clean it first. Then how do I run the bike to warm the chain up to be able to lube it warm? I run my chain with no lube simply so I can lube with something that won't alllow me to lube again until I get the chain cleaned? If you do lube when the chain is dirty, you WILL be collecting dirt and keeping it where you do not want it.
You see what I'm saying here?
And besides these sort of cosmolene-ish surface protectants (whish is really all they are to begin with) being a bad choice for those who ride more than a tank of fuel in a day, try running ANY of these sorts of parrafin or tackifier rich petro lubes on a Timkin or pin&vee test. The miserable results will open your eyes.
I realise this is an Amsoil rich place...but there goo is no better than Maxima or other goos.
They provide the rider with the same results, messes that are hard to clean off.And very little protection for the long term..other than sideplate corrosion protection.
Just about any moly lube blows them away.
Solvent pased penetrating lubes can be applied at any time, as they help to clean the surfaces upon application, and deposit a replentishing of moly, or other product.
Cleanup for one of these types of lubes is just a wipe with a rag, but try wiping your goo off with a rag.
If you must, use a moly rich lube first, then coat your plates with the 'cosmolene' of choice.
im sure ill get blasted for this, but let me tell you something, i have a 4 wheeler and run it through the most dirty and muddy conditions you can imagine. this thing also gets run through water over a foot deep. i use to have a complicated process of pulling the chain off at regular intervals and cleaning it in diesel and then spraying it down with lube, letting it dry, and then putting it back on.
sence i got an o-ring chain on this 4 wheeler i decided to try spraying it down with wd40 after each ride to keep the orings fresh and to get dirt off the chain. i had heard of people doing this and it works! i have run dozens of tanks of gas through it by now and have not needed to adjust the chain. it isnt wearing out or stretching. i cant believe how low maintence oring chains are. they are also super clean. no need for costly lubes and the mess associated with them. just grab an oring chain and spray it down with wd40 after each ride. the wd40 evaporates somewhat between rides so that it does not make youre chain into a sticky mess of dirt attracting magnet. its easy, theres virtually no mess involved, and the best part is wd40 is cheap.
if it can stand up to mud, water and abrasive dirt associated with off roading, i would imagine it can stand up to the relatively clean state of street biking.
sence i got an o-ring chain on this 4 wheeler i decided to try spraying it down with wd40 after each ride to keep the orings fresh and to get dirt off the chain. i had heard of people doing this and it works! i have run dozens of tanks of gas through it by now and have not needed to adjust the chain. it isnt wearing out or stretching. i cant believe how low maintence oring chains are. they are also super clean. no need for costly lubes and the mess associated with them. just grab an oring chain and spray it down with wd40 after each ride. the wd40 evaporates somewhat between rides so that it does not make youre chain into a sticky mess of dirt attracting magnet. its easy, theres virtually no mess involved, and the best part is wd40 is cheap.
if it can stand up to mud, water and abrasive dirt associated with off roading, i would imagine it can stand up to the relatively clean state of street biking.
The WD40 is simply keeping your chain cleaner and free from abrasives. WD40 provides no barrier protection against wear and it's corrosion inhibiting properties are quite limited, but you're already ahead of the game by keeping your chain clean compared to the bikes I see week after week with goopy grundgy grimey chains.
No doubt that a clean chain (in good shape) is a happy chain when compared to a dirty chain...
BUT, a clean chain with a good dry film chain lube that also provides barrier protection is even happier and so are the sprockets.
The problem with solvents is that some are thin enough to penetrate into the links and disolve the lube inside the pin / bushing. Once that lube is depleted, then so are your corrosion inhibitors, etc. When the pin and or bushing start to corrode on the inside of the ring, the performance & life of the chain will suffer more quickly than a non-ring chain that's been properly taken care of.
I've got nothing against WD40 and think it's a very good chain maintenance solution for some people who simply want a quick / inexpensive cleaner with a few other bennies, but it falls way short of a good dry film lube in terms of lubrication, corrosion, AW/EP, etc.
No doubt that a clean chain (in good shape) is a happy chain when compared to a dirty chain...
BUT, a clean chain with a good dry film chain lube that also provides barrier protection is even happier and so are the sprockets.
The problem with solvents is that some are thin enough to penetrate into the links and disolve the lube inside the pin / bushing. Once that lube is depleted, then so are your corrosion inhibitors, etc. When the pin and or bushing start to corrode on the inside of the ring, the performance & life of the chain will suffer more quickly than a non-ring chain that's been properly taken care of.
I've got nothing against WD40 and think it's a very good chain maintenance solution for some people who simply want a quick / inexpensive cleaner with a few other bennies, but it falls way short of a good dry film lube in terms of lubrication, corrosion, AW/EP, etc.
I discovered that BelRay ultra clean chain lube is simply a zinc compound in a carrier fluid. It has no oil at all. It is the best I have found for my dirt bikes.
I hate chain wax. It is about the worst thing going for my bikes. (RZ350 non "O" ring and Husky 360WR "O" ring).
Keep in mind that anything you use on an "O" ring chain just lubes the rollers. The pins are sealed by the "O" rings. Chain wax is just fine for "O" ring chains.
I read the other chain lube thread carefully. I think that chains wear out no matter what you do.
Chris
I hate chain wax. It is about the worst thing going for my bikes. (RZ350 non "O" ring and Husky 360WR "O" ring).
Keep in mind that anything you use on an "O" ring chain just lubes the rollers. The pins are sealed by the "O" rings. Chain wax is just fine for "O" ring chains.
I read the other chain lube thread carefully. I think that chains wear out no matter what you do.
Chris
Look at www.sidewindersprockets.com, I have their ti-moly sprockets and o-ring chain on an 01 KX250 and they are indestructible. They sell a special synthetic lube that works great.
Chris,
I am not to sure how well the zinc compound of Super Clean (I assume that is the prod. you are talking about)helps to keep the elastomer rings fortified. And that must also be considered when trying to keep a ring chain alive.
I do know that on a Timkin test, Super Clean has a hard time standing up to most moly-rich dry films I have tested against it.
But I would use it hands down over WD-40 for protecting the surfaces.
WD-40 simply does not cut muster.
I am not to sure how well the zinc compound of Super Clean (I assume that is the prod. you are talking about)helps to keep the elastomer rings fortified. And that must also be considered when trying to keep a ring chain alive.
I do know that on a Timkin test, Super Clean has a hard time standing up to most moly-rich dry films I have tested against it.
But I would use it hands down over WD-40 for protecting the surfaces.
WD-40 simply does not cut muster.
Maybe check out some of the chain manufactures and sprocket company's? maybe a few oem bike owners manuals? see what they all recommend, maybe a few of them know what they're talkin about? I've used everything in the shop and still experimnet with different stuff for different applications, it's part of mc'ing.
- Status
Similar threads
