Amsoil White Paper?

[KBFXDLI]

Has anybody read the Amsoil "White paper" study on MC oils? I can't believe they would actually publish this kind of rubbish. Anybody with any statistical training at all can easily see that this "study" is garbage and completely invalid.
What a total scam!

 

[IslaVistaMan]

You might want to look at this UOA of Amsoil's MCF 10W-40, KBFX:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=000071

5,000 miles. Testing done per Blackstone -- recently, in fact.

Whatever they're doing with their newer bike oils, it works. Regardless of what you think of the study, the fact remains that Amsoil has some of the best bike oils on the market -- and I'm sure the folks at Blackstone would agree.

 

[Pablo]

So what part is a "scam"?

Please provide details. And provide information from your favorite oil.

 

[msparks]

Yes please tell us how it's a scam?

 

[Don Stefanik]

Maybe that he dosen't like the idea that the Harly oil didn't fair so well.

 

[KBFXDLI]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
So what part is a "scam"?

Please provide details. And provide information from your favorite oil.

---

The scoring and summary of results is statistically invalid. The comparison results are not a statistically valid method and have no mathmatical correlation with the results of each test or each other which renders the entire document useless. To lump "pricing" in with valid ASTM test variables for viscosity also renders all the results useless. This test couldn't pass muster in a first year engineering class. The whole thing is a joke...a scam really since this corporation has chosen to publish this as fact. IMHO

 

[KBFXDLI]

Originally posted by Don Stefanik:
Maybe that he dosen't like the idea that the Harly oil didn't fair so well.

[/QUOTE

Maybe you didn't finish 8th grade...because if you did you wouldn't fall for this crap. Maybe I should have my 8 year old kid explain it to you.

 

[KBFXDLI]

quote:

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Originally posted by msparks:
Yes please tell us how it's a scam?

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You dirtbags should be ashamed of yourselves for trying to dupe the public with this garbage

 

[Don Stefanik]

For what it's worth.....I have a lot of happy customers using both the 10W40 and the 20W50.
I myself found a slight performance improvement with the new oil in my GL1800 Goldwing.
My Harly customers also are very happy with the oil.
For me.....that is what counts.......customers that like the product and tell their friends about it.
Rather than claim the paper is false...why not try the oil and see if you can disprove what others say about the performance of AMSOIL.

 

[KBFXDLI]

quote:

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Originally posted by IslaVistaMan:
You might want to look at this UOA of Amsoil's MCF 10W-40, KBFX:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=000071

5,000 miles. Testing done per Blackstone -- recently, in fact.

Whatever they're doing with their newer bike oils, it works. Regardless of what you think of the study, the fact remains that Amsoil has some of the best bike oils on the market -- and I'm sure the folks at Blackstone would agree.

---

Sounds reasonable coming from you but the study gives it a score that is almost 50% higher that Mobil1Vtwin, 60% better that Torco and 100% better than Syn3 which the ASTM tests do NOT correlate.......so this is ** plain & simple.

 

[Don Stefanik]

Actually I didn't finish grade 11. I only have grade 10. Sorry..I had to go to work for a living as well as farm. May not be the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, but I try my best.

 

[KBFXDLI]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Don Stefanik:
For what it's worth.....I have a lot of happy customers using both the 10W40 and the 20W50.
I myself found a slight performance improvement with the new oil in my GL1800 Goldwing.
My Harly customers also are very happy with the oil.
For me.....that is what counts.......customers that like the product and tell their friends about it.
Rather than claim the paper is false...why not try the oil and see if you can disprove what others say about the performance of AMSOIL.

---

So it Ok to lie as long as everybody is happy?

 

[KBFXDLI]

quote:

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Originally posted by Don Stefanik:
Actually I didn't finish grade 11. I only have grade 10. Sorry..I had to go to work for a living as well as farm. May not be the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, but I try my best.

---

Gee then maybe you should ask somebody whether this is a real test or not before you make fun of me. I went to work in a steel mill but put myself through university at night. My minor was statistics and let me tell you this: the ASTM tests are probably real but the analysis of the test results are horsehockey. The math don't lie but Amsoil Corp does.IMHO

 

[KBFXDLI]

I have heard many cries from all the Amsoil junkies about this report and "why doesn't Exxon Mobil or others challenge this research" well after reading this thing I understand why. They don't participate in scams based on statistically invalid observations. Especially one like this. IMHO

 

[Don Stefanik]

KBFDLI.....maybe it would be a benifite if you emailed AMSOIL direct and chalenged them on this report.
I don't have the background like you on statistics and graphs etc.
It would be inetresting to hear what they have to say.

 

[IslaVistaMan]

Yeah, the "score" part of the study did leave a bit to be desired. That was just Amsoil's way of assigning a winner across all the tests and the results, so somebody came out on top.

The real bummer of the test was this: None of the heavy-duty 15W-40 diesel oils so popular with bikers were included. Why? Amsoil excluded them because those oils don't formally compete with their motorcycle offerings.

Personally, I'll put my faith in a UOA every time -- especially when you see a 5,000 mile change interval, and on an initial load of an oil at that. That link I provided points to the very first UOA done on Amsoil's newer MCF 10W-40 here on BITOG.

At least for those using a "true" bike oil, the study provided good information on a test-specific basis. Amsoil deserves credit for that, regardless of their rating mechanism.

 

[KBFXDLI]

IslaVistaMan: You just hit the nail on the head. Why no HDEO's? easy....they would score right up there with the synthetics. That's why! But NONE of the Syn oil makers want to talk about that much since they can't get the public to pay $6-8 a quart for them because when those oils came out nobody ever dreamed somebody would pay that much for a quart of oil. Amsoil was the first to market synthetics at those retail price varibles so in reality the price margin that they ALL enjoy can be blamed on Amsoil...I am certain that's why the others quietly said to themselves "wow I want some of that easy money". Even Harley Davidson reversed themselves and jumped in on this super high dollar margin bonanza. Why else would any company do it? So NOW am I making any sense guys?

 

[KBFXDLI]

If you doubt what I am saying check any Harley Davidson owners manual which says "if you can't find genuine HD oil a suitable Heavy duty diesel rated oil can be substituted as a replacement" But pay no attention to the lower price....kinda reminds me of the Wizard of Oz where they tell the little girl.."pay no attention to that man behind the curtain".

 

[IslaVistaMan]

Believe me, KB, I'd absolutely love to see a recent 5,000 mile UOA on a HDEO from a wet-clutch road bike -- especially one where the oil didn't thin down to water.

Maybe I'm just missing something, but those kind of miles on motorcycle UOAs are pretty rare around here.

Anyone care to up their HDEO change interval this riding season and get Blackstone to look at it?

No? Well, let's just run it out to 2,500 miles and call it even, then

 

[Pablo]

"Dirtbag", "scam", "lies", "useless" are all very strong, subject words. Since you use these words, I need further proof!

You don't like Amsoil? No one forces you to buy it.

So the scoring is not statistically correct because basically they didn't weight the factors. To weight the factors would require some further input as to the importance to the user. It doesn't make the entire document "useless".

You plainly have some axe to grind. Fine. But if you really think Amsoil is inferior, I challenge you to prove it, statistically.