Has anyone ever used MMO in their gas on a thumper? I read somewhere that a kawasaki rep recommended it for the kx250f because people were having problems with their valves breaking. I'm getting my new bike this week so I was wondering if I should try it.
MMO in the gas of a thumper?
- Thread starter p-chem
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a long time ago it was discussed here that MMO and any other oil type lube does nothing for valves other then clean them. the only real solution is to use leaded gas, real lead additive, or a lead substitute from a reputable source.
in case you haven't found it already I recommend you visit the www.thumpertalk.com forums.
in case you haven't found it already I recommend you visit the www.thumpertalk.com forums.
i know of a national dirt track racer that swears by using MMO in the fuel tank of his thumper.
i have used it quite a bit as well. i mix it into the fuel jug. sometimes i pour it into the tank and just pour the fuel in on top of it. hard to say how well it does or doesn't do without back to back tests in a controlled environment. if it keeps the valves clean, that is a *good* thing!
p-chem, i would suggest running a good fuel and make sure you keep an eye on the valve lash. a VERY close eye. as in check it for a baseline before you ever start the motor. use a hour meter and re-check the lash every 5 hours or less if possible. the more you ride at the rev limiter, the more frequent your checking should be.
ts, yes, that is a nice site.
i have used it quite a bit as well. i mix it into the fuel jug. sometimes i pour it into the tank and just pour the fuel in on top of it. hard to say how well it does or doesn't do without back to back tests in a controlled environment. if it keeps the valves clean, that is a *good* thing!
p-chem, i would suggest running a good fuel and make sure you keep an eye on the valve lash. a VERY close eye. as in check it for a baseline before you ever start the motor. use a hour meter and re-check the lash every 5 hours or less if possible. the more you ride at the rev limiter, the more frequent your checking should be.
ts, yes, that is a nice site.
I plan checking the valves right after I break it in. I had a 03 yz250f and the valve clearence never changed. My brother has 04 crf250 and he constantly bounces of the rev limiter. He has lots of hours (mx racing) and he has only had to re-shim one of his valves once. Sunruh, which motor oil have you found is the best "bang for the buck". I have noticed you have done lots of UOA. I doubt that I will go over 100 oci because it will be all mx racing.
using my 01yz250f as the omnios oil mixmaster of DOOM, i can say that Exxon Superflow (with coupon and rebate at pepboys for 79 cents a quart) is without a doubt the BEST bang for the buck. now, i've only tested the 20w50 SL version, but i'll put some faith in the 10w40 SL working as well. i have Texaco Havoline 10w40 SL in it right now and seems to be fine. my new 06yz250f just got the original oil swapped out after 0.9 hours on the motor with the havoline 10w40 SL. you can get 5qt jug of it for under $7 at wallyworld.
if you are a "local" pro, i would HIGHLY advise you not putting 5 hours on the oil before it is dumped. i would go so far as to say, you need to dump it after every race weekend or long practice session.
being in Idaho, you need to look at cold weather ambient temps to see what you need to run (if you even ride in the winter there). it was 77F here yesterday.
if you are a "local" pro, i would HIGHLY advise you not putting 5 hours on the oil before it is dumped. i would go so far as to say, you need to dump it after every race weekend or long practice session.
being in Idaho, you need to look at cold weather ambient temps to see what you need to run (if you even ride in the winter there). it was 77F here yesterday.
I can say through experience that MMO does provide some topend lubrication, whether or not the kx250 needs it??. My best proof to myself was a new 300six that only lasted 15,000 miles on a propane conversion (read dry fuel). After a valve job and additon of an mmo oiler the thing is on its way to rolling the odometer over.
there's always lube control and fuel power.
i noticed a lot of improvement on my carbed bike; not much in particular on my fuel injected bike.
before i switched to lc & fp i did use mmo with good results. that was a twin, not a thumper.
my current bike is a 650 single.
i noticed a lot of improvement on my carbed bike; not much in particular on my fuel injected bike.
before i switched to lc & fp i did use mmo with good results. that was a twin, not a thumper.
my current bike is a 650 single.
I have been using bio-diesel in my Moto Guzzi. About 6 ounces in each tank. It costs less, good solvent,and it burns clean. I also use it for 2 stroke lube in the chain saw and weed trimmer.
the the ultra hard rings and coated cylinders a modern bike has is a top end lube really needed?
tom,
"top end" as in intake valves and cylinder wall above the compression ring. but you knew that right?
"top end" as in intake valves and cylinder wall above the compression ring. but you knew that right?
I don't belive anything but lead or a lead substitute does anything for valves. their stems are lubed with engine oil, the seats/valve face have way too much pressure and heat for any type of oil to help them out. I haven't seen or heard much about a piston wearing out before the rings on a properly tuned bike. for the most part cylinders hardly wear at all on the newer nikasil, or other hard coated cylinders unless you are haveing some other type of failure.
most of the top end failures I have been reading about are from valves coming apart (head breaking off the stem) or beating the seats into the head. neither of these can be fixed with lubrication.
why do you use leaded gas? why not just MMO?
most of the top end failures I have been reading about are from valves coming apart (head breaking off the stem) or beating the seats into the head. neither of these can be fixed with lubrication.
why do you use leaded gas? why not just MMO?
tom,
the engine oil can only lube the valve stems ABOVE the valve seal. MMO lubes the valve stem as it goes back up into the head. it also helps to clean any deposits off the stem side as well.
i agree with you on what the typical failures are and that lubrication cannot fix that.
the Howell 002 fuel that i run (at times) is leaded, but i don't run it *because* it is leaded. i run it because it has superior resistance to ambient heat than the VP Motorsports 103 (unleaded) that i also run. if Howell 002 was unleaded, i would still use it. a lot of good fuel will cook off in my ambient heat because their 90% temp is below what it gets to outside.
the engine oil can only lube the valve stems ABOVE the valve seal. MMO lubes the valve stem as it goes back up into the head. it also helps to clean any deposits off the stem side as well.
i agree with you on what the typical failures are and that lubrication cannot fix that.
the Howell 002 fuel that i run (at times) is leaded, but i don't run it *because* it is leaded. i run it because it has superior resistance to ambient heat than the VP Motorsports 103 (unleaded) that i also run. if Howell 002 was unleaded, i would still use it. a lot of good fuel will cook off in my ambient heat because their 90% temp is below what it gets to outside.
check out this interesting article on how valve stem seals "seal" from fel-pro.
valve stem seal tech info
I certainly don't think MMO hurts anything, I just don't think it really helps much either.
valve stem seal tech info
I certainly don't think MMO hurts anything, I just don't think it really helps much either.
tom,
if that is how the 250f (all colors) valve stem seals work, then how come so many honda's wear out the guides? surely honda (of all companies) would know how to make/set the specs for a valve stem seal.
also, how does the oil go down the stem if the bike is pitched sideways (wheels parallel to ground) or if you are doing a wheelie or stoppie or the multitude other things that a dirtbike does?
car motor stays flat, doesn't leave the road and might spin up to 7k. your kxf and my yzf spin up to 13,500. just a weee bit of difference.
if that is how the 250f (all colors) valve stem seals work, then how come so many honda's wear out the guides? surely honda (of all companies) would know how to make/set the specs for a valve stem seal.
also, how does the oil go down the stem if the bike is pitched sideways (wheels parallel to ground) or if you are doing a wheelie or stoppie or the multitude other things that a dirtbike does?
car motor stays flat, doesn't leave the road and might spin up to 7k. your kxf and my yzf spin up to 13,500. just a weee bit of difference.
I don't think a very light oil/distillate (MMO) mixed in a very high ratio is really going to lube much with the load and heat at 12k.
have you actually seen/read about people extending the life of their 250f by using mmo?
tom,
i do not think anybody could prove either way that mmo helped or hurt a 250f.
mine is one of the oldest there is -> frame 638 from 01. i've only used mmo in it this last year.
i buy the 32oz size at wally's for $3.21. it lasts a long time at "recommended" doses.
however, consider that 2smoke oil can be mixed anywhere from 24:1 - 100:1 (32:1 is typical) how is that little oil lubing the main bearings (and sealing the rings) at the same rpm?
i do not think anybody could prove either way that mmo helped or hurt a 250f.
mine is one of the oldest there is -> frame 638 from 01. i've only used mmo in it this last year.
i buy the 32oz size at wally's for $3.21. it lasts a long time at "recommended" doses.
however, consider that 2smoke oil can be mixed anywhere from 24:1 - 100:1 (32:1 is typical) how is that little oil lubing the main bearings (and sealing the rings) at the same rpm?
needle bearings and modern piston rings need very little lubrication. would you run MMO as 2 stroke oil?
I would never use MMO as a 2 smoke oil. I don't think that it (I know that it doesn't) has enough lubrication characteristics for that application. MMO is to be used as an additive and not a replacement for oil. I was thinking of using it as a light lubrication and it's cleaning abilities for keeping the top end clean (or cleaner).
beanoil,
really?
maybe somebody from thumpertalk (cough cough) is already on here?
really?
maybe somebody from thumpertalk (cough cough) is already on here?
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