best oil for a bike?

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Believe it or not, I don't ride one!!! I use the bike oil for my Honda CR-V. I like the extra additive package that these oils (meaning Maxima's line) come with. My vehicle doesn't use oil at all, so the emissions worries are non-existant.

My daughter on the other hand (who is all of 6 right now) loves motorcycles and wants to get Jesse of West Coast Choppers to build her one!!!

I have since started checking on them, just so that I have an idea of what's up.
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I'm now riding a yz444F (torque monster)
I have been using several different oils in the bike since I got it, looking for any variance in the amount of particulate I pull out of the filter.

I change about every ride or two.
And cost can absolutely be a factor, especially with the frequency of change being about 100 times more frequent than an automobile.

And I think folks who rely on the high dollar moto specific oils tend to be less inclined to change out so frequent, even though it is necessary for these type engines.

I think all in all, that a diesel oil is probably the best, most cost efficient fluid we can run.

But I have had great luck with wear using the old M1 15w50 (red cap), and NAPA full syn 15w50.

I do think that there is a feel good factor involved, but with the extra that is required from these modern single piston four stroke MX engines (1/12th of an F1 engine w/14,000rpm reve limiter), my mind tells me to use the best I can get, and change it often.
 
I totally agree with owners getting lazy with there oil changes ,being they are using a synthetic.In reality they are fooling themselves.

Keith
"LET'S JUST RIDE"
 
I for one, am completely happy to see this board have a moto specific forum.
It is exactly what we need to help with our comparative data.

Folks need to understand that off road motorcycles are in a completely different world than automobile or truck engines. Even a different world from road bikes.

EOC isn't even a consideration with our sport.
Yet we need a very robust fluid that the healhtier EOC fluids provide.

Even moto specific oils like M-1 MX4T are desingned for the 5000 miles change.
There is no motocross or off road biker that would even come close to a 5000 mi change.
Not even a consideration.

If it weren't for the wet clutch, I think that is would be easier to design a short duration fluid that is robust enough to provide adequate protection and stay in grade for a short period (no problem) AND be cost effective.
Maybe HDEO has the answer in front of us already.

Perhaps dino oils are the way to go.
Hopefullly this place will prove invaluable in providing us with the necessary information to figure it all out.

With folks like sunruh around, I'm certain it will.
 
with 16 uoa's under my belt on the same bike (original owner) i can say without a doubt that there is significant knowledge to be learned in the motorcycle world with regards to the "longevity" of an oil in a mx 4strk bike (and to some extent it's crotch rocket brotheren from which most of these are derived).
it has become quite clear to me (because of these uoa's) that some "motorcycle" oils really are not up to the task of being put in an actual mx 4strk bike for any duration longer than 100 miles. some "car" oils have shown better and worse results. we need more mx 4strk uoa's to help prove (or dismiss) these oils capabilities.

it's funny. the reason i did my first uoa on my bike back in '01 was to get a baseline. later ones were to prove (or NOT) if any titanium from my valves where ever getting into to the oil and if so was it a pre-curser to a valve train problem. well, after almost 5 years of racing i have yet to see 1 ppm of titanium in my oil and the valves are all doing quite well. i guess that is why yamaha has so many patents on their design and why it remains the pinnacle of mx 4strk engine longevity.
 
But, I think that there have been some noted issues with the Yamaha titanium valves. First off, they are a two peice design, which can prove to be a problem if the valve ever gets into an abnormal situation. Also, the titanium valves are NOT machinable.

From the expert knowledge of a couple fo well respected engine tuners/builders in the MX world, they report finding the normal longevity of a stock Yamaha thumper is around the area of 20-30 hours before a top end is required.
(this being bikes ridden hard by pro caliber riders)

A simple exhange of the OEM valves and springs for an aftermarket set-up, like the Kibblewhite products, has shown to increase the longevity of the Yamaha 250,426,450 F's nearly ten fold.
(200 hours with same rider)
The Kibblewhite valves are also stainless, and can be re-machined.
 
and what is the longevity of the other brands?

i've seen first hand what kawaski/suzuki and honda can handle. the term "don't blink twice" comes to mind for longevity.
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50 plus hrs on my RMZ 450,valves are still holding SAME CLEARANCE WHEN I MEASURED AT 3 HRS.
I know a lot of owners are having problems with there 250 valves rmz, kxf, crf. Revving that high,I would try changing the springs out more often,maybe this would help. Or just maybe the coating on the titanium valves is sub par.

Keith
"LET'S JUST RIDE"
 
I think general concensus is that the OEM Yamaha parts may well be ablt to withstand more operating hours than their competitors.

I try very hard to only look at data I hear about from credible re-builders and tuners in this area, as anecdotal info tends to be skewed a bit.

KX 455, I also tend to think that the springs are the weak link, as they have the most potential to change of all the valve train.
The potential for other catastophioc damage as a result of a sacked spring is high.

I know folks tend to tout the products and services they persoanlly use, and I am a Kibblewhite user and fan, as they seem to concentrate on the springs as one of the most important items in the engine. Their testing on this issue is unsurpassed.

Materials are another concern. OEM's tend to use "adequate" materials, and not opt for the "optimum" materials available.
Another plus for quality aftermarket products.
 
Earlier comment on racing oil is correct. It doesn't have the additive package to allow for extended OCI. What it DOES have is more oil which is what keeps moving parts apart. It's a very robust oil, just not a good extended corrosion fighter.

If you want a REALLY robust oil, run the stuff that goes into the big radial aircraft engines. It's almost pure oil, and can go to very high temperatures without burning away. It's got about the same corrosion protection as racing oil, which is not much.

Regards, Gary in Sandy Eggo
 
Cheesy,

I have a 2005 ZX6R as well and am beginning to run a battery of oil analyses to optimize wear results. The prioritization of formulation will be given first towards wear and economy/hp second.

No single attribute of an oil will show you its true colors, so be careful of going off of one number, i.e. shearing, starting viscosity, additive levels. To even suggest that somebody can thoroughly learn tribology through unguided education/observation in a few years is disingenuous towards professionals in the industry.

Ultimately, I think the best oil for your bike will have to be found through oil tests as oils and motorcycle vary, especially when consideration given towards a specific user's requirements and desired shift feel is entered into the equation.

Ethan
 
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