Harley Davidson V-Rod, which dino 20W50?

[fuel tanker man]

My bud just got a new Night Rod (V-Rod).

We're trying to decide what oil to use in it without having to pay the confiscatory prices of Harley Davidson marketed Citgo stuff.

My only reservations about running Havoline 20W50 is the 200 ppm of moly. This is a wet clutch set-up, where the engine oil will be on the clutch plates.

Will 200 ppm of the type moly that's in the Havoline 20W50 be harmful to this clutch?

We're going to go with short OCI's, so don't want to waste money on synthetics.

The Valvoline dinos show low moly, but unfortunately they show low everything else, too...

Ideas?

Dan

 

[wileyE]

Fwiw 200ppm + hasn't hurt my zr7s or my zg1000. The zr7s has had a full case (12qts) of the hav 20/50 through it. The ZG just 2 OCI.

On the race bikes I work with (600+750's mostly and some 4stroke mxer's) we use 30w redline (read lotsa moly) in everything with the best results. have for a few years. Never a hint of clutch slippage nor a change in the back torque performance. One of the reasons I'm such a skeptic on the whole moly debate, though I do respect peoples concerns about it.


The night road and street rod are way cool IMO. My last trip to the dealership had me leaned over that model longer than anything in there, can see it in my mind with a small sport fairing and some sleek bags. A sport bagger if you will?

 

[fuel tanker man]

Wiley,

Thanks for sharing your experience about the moly. If it didn't slip the clutch in the bikes you used it in, I think it would probably be okay in this bike.

I PM'd Molakule for some input here. Don't know if he'll find time to get involved, but if he replies to my PM I'll share his response. (Or he may just post in this thread).

Thanks again for your response. I really can't find anything in the dino 20W50 that compares to the Havoline. The Pennzoil would be next, but it has a thinner viscosity and it lacks the Magnesium and Boron that the Havoline has, which I think are probably one of the reasons I've gotten tremendously good UOA's from the Havoline in my '94 Evolution (Low Rider).

Dan

 

[wileyE]

fuel tanker man, I was running hav 20/50 sort of by chance. Didn't know a thing about it until you posted the UOA's on it, I enjoyed seeing them thanks.
I have a couple aircooled bikes in the "fleet" that I feed 20w/50 dino,usually whatever's on sale. By chance (and t shirt rebate offer) guess I picked the right one, LOL!

 

[jimcor]

I have never, repeat never, heard anything but rumors about wet clutches slipping because of oil.

(I have seen problems caused by STP and some of those Teflon Slick deals though.)

I have used: energy conserving, non-energy conserving, HDEO's, car oils, and very expensive motorcycle oil, in 5w30, 10w30, 10w40, 15w40 and 20w50. Dino, Synth Blend, Group 3 Synth, and Full PAO Synth. I have never had a wet clutch slip because of oil.

Has anyone???

I'm a firm believer in short bike OCI's, but then I grew up on British twins.

Tanker Man, I know from other posts that you're hip to the HDEO's. That is what I would run in that V-Rod.

 

[fuel tanker man]

Jimcor,

Thanks for the suggestion, and sharing your experiences with the various oils.

I just spoke to another friend of mine who has an '02 V-Rod. He has been running--unbeknownst to me--Havoline 20W50 in that bike. He also has a Low Rider and I had recommended the Havoline for that bike earlier this year. He said that since he'd bought a case of the Havoline when it came time to change the oil in the V-Rod he just used the Havoline. He said there were no problems of any kind with the clutch.

I think my mind is about made up--I think I'm going to tell my friend to go with the Havoline.

The bike will be under warranty for a couple years, and I guess we'll have to use the recommended weight of 20W50 at least through that time frame.

I wish they made a 20W50 HDEO...

Dan

 

[tmorris1]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jimcor:
I have never, repeat never, heard anything but rumors about wet clutches slipping because of oil.

(I have seen problems caused by STP and some of those Teflon Slick deals though.)

I have used: energy conserving, non-energy conserving, HDEO's, car oils, and very expensive motorcycle oil, in 5w30, 10w30, 10w40, 15w40 and 20w50. Dino, Synth Blend, Group 3 Synth, and Full PAO Synth. I have never had a wet clutch slip because of oil.

Has anyone???

I'm a firm believer in short bike OCI's, but then I grew up on British twins.

Tanker Man, I know from other posts that you're hip to the HDEO's. That is what I would run in that V-Rod.

---

It is not just a rumor. I have experienced it with ATVs and dirtbikes. Offroad bikes might have a smaller clutch ( I don't know that for sure) which takes more abuse creating more heat. You definitely work the clutch more on a MX bike than a street bike.

 

[MolaKule]

The earlier formulations with powdered moly disulfide definatley plated-up on wet clutches and caused problems, because the moly was in flake form, a solid suspended in the oil.

The soluble moly (MoDTC) causes fewer problems since it usually doesn't plate-up like the powdered versions.

Soluble moly in this dosage is used as a friction reducer. What I would do is run an OCI with a 20W50 without moly and then one WITH moly and determine if there is any slip or delay in grab that you can determine.

For most bikes, when the amount of moly gets to greater than 500 ppm, you might start to see slippages.

 

[Reg# 43897]

Yup, learned about the powdered MoS2 the hard way... Doesn't work in a bike whatsoever. But, man, does the transmission ever work well when the clutch isn't under load...

Stay away from that stuff for sure, powdered MoS2 additives I mean. Haven't seen an issue with normal doses put into the oil formulation by the manufacturer.

John.

 

[fuel tanker man]

Molakule,

Thanks for your input here. I think Valvoline is still making a couple different 20W50's without moly. We're going to change the oil at 500 miles, and again at 1000, so that will give us the opportunity to try what you suggest.

Dan

 

[honus402]

Just run the Havoline 20W-50.

 

[RiverRat]

Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin. You can find it at some Wal Mart.

 

[Bagger_Matt]

Dan, I dont think the Havoline will hurt that clutch. I not sure who, but someone on this board was testing this theory by adding more and more moly to try and find the slip point. He stated that the bike ran and shifted fine if not better with no slipping.

 

[fuel tanker man]

Thanks Superglide. I've heard a few folks mention that Redline's 600+ ppm moly content doesn't seem to bother the clutch.

I think it's like Molakule says--the old type moly gave moly the bad rep on wet clutches--but the new type doesn't seem to bother them.

I do think that if a clutch is about toasted out that simply changing the oil might put it over the edge. Some folks have mentioned slipping after an oil change, but I think that may be more likely just due to a clutch that was about gone to begin with.

For what it's worth, STP says that thier oil treatments can cause wet clutches to slip--but they don't contain any moly. Just a lot of zinc and phosphorous, which the phone answerers at STP say might cause clutch slippage. But most dedicated motorcycle oils have boatloads of zinc and phos in them!

It's good to be a member of a community that can collectively cut through most of the hype and blather that the industry throws at us.

Dan