I just called Chevron, and he said i shouldn't use the SL Delo 400 15w-40 in my wet clutch because it now has friction modifiers in it. If is says ci-4 plus, it has friction modifiers in it. He also said the Supreme line will not work also. Even the 10w-40 and 20-50 have friction modifiers. I have been using Shell Rotell 15w-40 and it is also rated Ci-4 plus, but has been woking for the last 600 miles or so. Chevron said we will be stuck using the OEM stuff from now on. I "might" try the Valvoline 10w-40 next.
Can't use Delo 400
- Thread starter JonS
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Many of the OEM MC and name brand MC oils contain the same FM's, all due respect to the rep you talked with.
Jon you may have better information than me? I guess a guideline like 200ppm may be helpful but from what I've been told doesn't tell the whole story. The idea is not to have the friction so reduced or "modified" that the clutch slips (starter clutch problems, back torque device affected). Testing that rotax has done has shown that the only way they could make it happen, regardless of typical FM additive level or type, was to use thin oil with the high FM additive. The combination of thin viscosity AND strong FM adds reduced the friction enough to make slipping a concern. Oils of the proper viscosity(with the same FM adds) were not a problem. They also cite that ALL FM and AW adds including zddp could have this effect, not just moly. Since thin viscosity plays a big role and we all know how fast oils shear in bike the recomendation of avoiding highly FM oils is probably a safe statement by the OEMs. If proper viscosity oil is used and changed before it sheared down to "energy conserving" levels high FM levels should never be a problem and may in fact have benefit. That is the way I understand the whole moly FM thing at this time, based on information from one OEM. I keep an open mind about the whole thing.
Jon, to be safe don't use any oil in your bike's engine.
Me, I'm gonna keep using Rotella , Delo, or Delvac dino 15w40, whichever is on sale. I'll let you know if my clutch slips.
Cheers!
Me, I'm gonna keep using Rotella , Delo, or Delvac dino 15w40, whichever is on sale. I'll let you know if my clutch slips.
Cheers!
Most of these customer service tech personell,we call up on the phone really do not know anything about there oils.
I have been using the new delo 400 in my 05,RMZ 450 MX BIKE.Find the post, "CALLED DELO 400 GOING FOR IT". I am really getting tired of hearing, "can't use it, it has friction modifier's". Take a look at Red line's,Motuls and Schaffers VOA. You wan't moly,these are all fine motorcycle oils with big doses of moly.I haven't heard any negative feedback with clutch slippage. MY CLUTCH HOOKS JUST FINE WITH THE NEW DELO. You know,it really is a shame for the company's sake. They have someone answering questions on the phone,that are not qualified to answer questions properly. Take it from me someone in the real world,I rode and raced MX the last 16 years the new Delo 400 is awesome in a wet clutch. I don't even work for the comapany,and I am not steering away customers,for lack of knowledge. Go find my post.
Keith
"LET'S JUST RIDE"
I have been using the new delo 400 in my 05,RMZ 450 MX BIKE.Find the post, "CALLED DELO 400 GOING FOR IT". I am really getting tired of hearing, "can't use it, it has friction modifier's". Take a look at Red line's,Motuls and Schaffers VOA. You wan't moly,these are all fine motorcycle oils with big doses of moly.I haven't heard any negative feedback with clutch slippage. MY CLUTCH HOOKS JUST FINE WITH THE NEW DELO. You know,it really is a shame for the company's sake. They have someone answering questions on the phone,that are not qualified to answer questions properly. Take it from me someone in the real world,I rode and raced MX the last 16 years the new Delo 400 is awesome in a wet clutch. I don't even work for the comapany,and I am not steering away customers,for lack of knowledge. Go find my post.
Keith
"LET'S JUST RIDE"
Look at the Chevron's point of view. If they recommend Delo for your bike and it breaks down then they have a problem.
No oil maker is going to go out on a limb.
Simply put; any oil without the Jaso Ma rating will not be recommended by the manufacturer for wet clutch motorcycles.
If you look at the Delo 15/40 specs, they do say delo can be used in powershift transmissions including Cat Powershift. Powershift transmissions like the Cat and Allison contain huge wet clutches.
Rotella T 15/40 has an official Allison C-4 rating.
I use diesel oil too but my brand is Jaso Ma rated.
No oil maker is going to go out on a limb.
Simply put; any oil without the Jaso Ma rating will not be recommended by the manufacturer for wet clutch motorcycles.
If you look at the Delo 15/40 specs, they do say delo can be used in powershift transmissions including Cat Powershift. Powershift transmissions like the Cat and Allison contain huge wet clutches.
Rotella T 15/40 has an official Allison C-4 rating.
I use diesel oil too but my brand is Jaso Ma rated.
Good news for you you folks out there worried about wet clutch performance. As pointed out in an earlier listing if you look on the bottle look for JASA MA mark. Now not all MA products are created equally as the spec is rather broad at the moment. Also not all OEM oils are the same either. In 2006 JASA is going to come out with two MA levels. JASA MA1 and JASO MA2. Those oils will be available in October 2006 when registration will be allowed. Till then just make sure you use at least something with the JASA MA spec so at least you know it was tested in a wet clutch test and registered. There are many different oils to pick from out there and the newer SL oils do have things in them that are not good for wet clutch performance. The vis is not a good indication as vis is not really related to clutch performance. Indeed one could say the high vis oils might not be very good as the film thickness prevents proper engagement. That can be true but of course not neccessarily true just like the thinner oils are prefectly cabable of having extremely good wet clutch performance. For the thinner oils the bigger issue will be gear wear.
It's a pretty tough market out there for the consumer.
It's a pretty tough market out there for the consumer.
Yes, multi-weight oil viscosity break-down is the biggest concern for motorcycle engines. The less than $1.00/quart on-sale Pennzoil SAE-40 I run for 5000 miles between oil changes in my Intruder 1400 doesn't shear. I start with SAE-40, and end up with SAE-40. Less than 1/8" on dipstick oil consumption between changes.
Regards, Gary in Sandy Eggo
Most of your observations are very insightful and true - except for the "film thickness prevents proper engagement". When the oil is hot, the clutch feel difference between 10 centistoke (30-wt) and 20 centistoke (50-wt)viscosity oil won't even be noticeable to you in your wet clutch operation. In fact, if not abused, a wet clutch will last forever because of the oil take-up between the plates as they come into very close proximity. When the oil's cold, however, there will be noticeable drag between the disengaged plates when shifting from neutral to 1st.
Regards, Gary in Sandy Eggo
Good Evening Board,
I went to Chevron's official site, and found this information regarding using Delo in our motorcycles. I have cut and paste the question, and Chevron's response:
My motorcycle owner's manual recommends against using an SJ passenger car motor oil. What product does Chevron have for my motorcycle?
Due to the inclusion of fuel economy requirements in the API category SJ, many oils have been formulated to contain friction modifiers. In a motorcycle wet-clutch application, these additives cause clutch slip and power loss. Chevron Delo® 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40 is our recommendation for motorcycle use.
It would appear Delo is still acceptable for motorcycles...do you all see it the same way?
RevRider
I went to Chevron's official site, and found this information regarding using Delo in our motorcycles. I have cut and paste the question, and Chevron's response:
My motorcycle owner's manual recommends against using an SJ passenger car motor oil. What product does Chevron have for my motorcycle?
Due to the inclusion of fuel economy requirements in the API category SJ, many oils have been formulated to contain friction modifiers. In a motorcycle wet-clutch application, these additives cause clutch slip and power loss. Chevron Delo® 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40 is our recommendation for motorcycle use.
It would appear Delo is still acceptable for motorcycles...do you all see it the same way?
RevRider
Chevron Delo 15W-40, Chevron 20W-50 and Havoline 20W-50.
I wonder if there are different grades of moly used in oil?
Motul and REdline have the highest content of moly of any oils on the market far as I can tell but they perform excellent clutch wise far as I can tell.
I was hesitant to use the redline cause it didn't have specific mc rating, but a guy I came across had been supermotoing his bike routinally for 3 years without any failures.
That sparked me to try it and glad I did
Motul and REdline have the highest content of moly of any oils on the market far as I can tell but they perform excellent clutch wise far as I can tell.
I was hesitant to use the redline cause it didn't have specific mc rating, but a guy I came across had been supermotoing his bike routinally for 3 years without any failures.
That sparked me to try it and glad I did
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