I have a scottoiler on my bike and it works great. However, it consumes a lot of oil when the weather heats up. I'm not too hip on ordering the red oil from scotts. I'd rather use ATF and thicken with Schaeffer #132 or a manual gear lube. Does anybody have experience with a thicker summer weight oil?
Scottoiler users
- Thread starter Ethan
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I had a Scott Oiler on a TL1000S and had to have it just about turned off or the drip rate was to fast -- or I was riding to fast
After the Scott Oil was gone I used M1 10w30 in it with success. If you think about it just about any lube oil will work. El Cheapo 10W30 would probebly work as we as the M1.
After the Scott Oil was gone I used M1 10w30 in it with success. If you think about it just about any lube oil will work. El Cheapo 10W30 would probebly work as we as the M1.
DaveJ,
It's an automatic chain oiler. It drips oil on the chain while you ride and greatly improves chain life. I'll get another one, one if these years.
I read somewhere that the Scott oil is similar to chainsaw oil.
I've heard good things about these in the past, but I don't understand how the lube stays on the chain.
They work off engine vacume and drip oil on the chain; correct?
Doesn't the oil just fling off the moving (high speed) chain? Do you guys notice oil all over your wheel, swingarm, or countershaft sprocket?
They work off engine vacume and drip oil on the chain; correct?
Doesn't the oil just fling off the moving (high speed) chain? Do you guys notice oil all over your wheel, swingarm, or countershaft sprocket?
Speedy,
In the brief amount of experience I have had with this product, oil does not accumulate on the tire, at least to any degree I have noticed. It does accumulate at the front sprocket, especially when the weather gets warm and you don't turn down the 'oiler. I figure it is easier to periodically clean this area than it is to tighten a worn chain.
I don't think the scottoiler is for everybody, just as oil analyses, additives, and the sort are for everybody. I've heard enough positive feedback in regards to decreasing chain mortality that I wanted to go for it.
I think I'm going to try a manual transmission lube to see how it works. Just have to get my bike back up and running.
Ethan
[ August 30, 2005, 03:03 AM: Message edited by: Ethan ]
In the brief amount of experience I have had with this product, oil does not accumulate on the tire, at least to any degree I have noticed. It does accumulate at the front sprocket, especially when the weather gets warm and you don't turn down the 'oiler. I figure it is easier to periodically clean this area than it is to tighten a worn chain.
I don't think the scottoiler is for everybody, just as oil analyses, additives, and the sort are for everybody. I've heard enough positive feedback in regards to decreasing chain mortality that I wanted to go for it.
I think I'm going to try a manual transmission lube to see how it works. Just have to get my bike back up and running.
Ethan
[ August 30, 2005, 03:03 AM: Message edited by: Ethan ]
Scottoilers were the hot ticket in the pre-oring chain days. With todays chains I'm not sure they are worth the mess. just my 02. Everything imaginable has been run through them even seen hand lotion!
Triumph says the Scottoiler is not recommended with there Fuel Injection, something to do with taking vacuum from the intake. I decided to try a Pro Oiler. I haven't completed the install yet, but the kit looks quite good. It uses the speed of the bike to judge how much oil to dispense. It uses a pump so viscosity is not a concern, but they say to use a thin oil so it washes the dirt from the chain. It comes with a small control panel you can use to increase the oil amount in rainy or dusty conditions. You can find more info at http://www.pro-oiler.com/
In my search for chain oilers, I found people recommending Sthil synthetic chainsaw bar oil, for use in oilers that lube at a constant rate.
Hylton
In my search for chain oilers, I found people recommending Sthil synthetic chainsaw bar oil, for use in oilers that lube at a constant rate.
Hylton
I used the S.O. for 12k miles on my 650 KLR. The chain only required 3 adjustments in that time.When the original oil was used up, I switched to 5w fork oil, then chainsaw baroil...anything "thinish". I think it's more about lubeing the sprockets, keeping the chain flushed and rust free, and perhaps lubing the outside of the o-rings. Yes, there was fling off(cleaning as you go), but oil is easier to wash off than most heavy chain lubes. A good 30 -40% of this riding was done on wet Oregon roads.I would recommend a drip oiler for this type of duty.
Rehashing this topic. I just recently got my bike back together after a highside I performed earlier this year. With the repairs and mods that I've made to the bike, I removed the scottoiler, but am getting ready to reinstall it. Low chain wear is a priority for me.
I've heard people say that modern o-ring chains don't need as much servicing, but still people recommending fairly frequent adjustments. This just tells me that *something* in the chain/sprocket assembly is wearing.
Speedy341, if you're still on this board, the lube does fling off, but I haven't had any on my rear tire, etc. It "collects" at the drive sprocket's protector. A periodic cleaning takes care of everything.
The original scottoil was too thin for our climate here in Texas. In the wintery months, it was ok, but still had to be turned down to nearly zero as satterfi noted. I'm going with a synthetic lube from molakula/Specialty Formulations. It's a modified manual tranny lube, so I'll have that glorious hypoid smell, but it is a small tradeoff for long chain life. I hope/think it'll reduce the amount of fling that I get. I'll certainly let everybody know.
I've heard people say that modern o-ring chains don't need as much servicing, but still people recommending fairly frequent adjustments. This just tells me that *something* in the chain/sprocket assembly is wearing.
Speedy341, if you're still on this board, the lube does fling off, but I haven't had any on my rear tire, etc. It "collects" at the drive sprocket's protector. A periodic cleaning takes care of everything.
The original scottoil was too thin for our climate here in Texas. In the wintery months, it was ok, but still had to be turned down to nearly zero as satterfi noted. I'm going with a synthetic lube from molakula/Specialty Formulations. It's a modified manual tranny lube, so I'll have that glorious hypoid smell, but it is a small tradeoff for long chain life. I hope/think it'll reduce the amount of fling that I get. I'll certainly let everybody know.
((I think I'm going to try a manual transmission lube to see how it works))
Try some 80/90 weight extreme pressure outboard gear oil. It should stick better than a typical 85/140 gl5 oil that tends to clean everything rather that stick.
Try some 80/90 weight extreme pressure outboard gear oil. It should stick better than a typical 85/140 gl5 oil that tends to clean everything rather that stick.
All,
I finally reinstalled the Scottoiler on my bike and filled it up with MolaKule's modified HDS-R lubricant. There is now use for the oiler's calibration knob beyond "1" to apply the proper amount of oil on the chain. Currently, I have the oiler set on "5" with 1 drop procuring roughly every 60 seconds. I suspect this viscosity will work well in Tejas' high heat months.
The bike will endure its first journey this weekend, hopefully about 1k miles and I'll let you guys know how this oil holds up in this application.
Ethan
2005 ZX6R
I finally reinstalled the Scottoiler on my bike and filled it up with MolaKule's modified HDS-R lubricant. There is now use for the oiler's calibration knob beyond "1" to apply the proper amount of oil on the chain. Currently, I have the oiler set on "5" with 1 drop procuring roughly every 60 seconds. I suspect this viscosity will work well in Tejas' high heat months.
The bike will endure its first journey this weekend, hopefully about 1k miles and I'll let you guys know how this oil holds up in this application.
Ethan
2005 ZX6R
Let's talk ring chains...
When you use a Scott Oiler, realize that all you are lubricating is the roller/bushing friction points, and the rings themselves.
The pin/bushing area (where the majority of wear that elongates the chain occurs) is protected by pre-injected lubricant. There should be no lubricant seeping out, and nothing getting in...including lubricant.
For the most part, your chain longevity is dependant on how long the pre-injected lubricant continues to provied the pin/bushing area protection. Once that protection has been depleted, there is nothing you can do. You can turn the oiler all the way up, or hand lube every five minutes...it won't change the results. The chain will be on a fast downhill spiral with no way to slow or stop it. and your sprockets will be on the trek down with it, as it is an elongated chain that wears the sprockets.
Everything above was mentioned considering a perfect world.
However, the world is far from perfect when it comes to chains lasting. If you have a fairly new ring chain of any sort, and it is requiring adjustment on a regular basis, then there may well be a problem.
Most often riders will have a ring chain that has some rings that are damaged. Often they may find a ring(s) that have been torn due to a road or trail hazzard, which can allow the lubricant to seep out and contaminants, like water and grit, to get in.
Other times the rings will not have any physical damage that you can see. But there may well be rings that have small creases in them that can allow lube out and dirt in. These little creases in the ring sealing faces can be caused by several things, but normally it happens because the rider has been misinformed about the maintenance required for ring chains, and don't do much of anything in the way of lubricating the chain. They have been told they are maint. free, and as a result, they neglect doing anything, short of spraying a little WD-40 from time to time.
Without proper lubricating for the rings themsleves, they can damage themselves just from normal operation. And to make matters worse, the solvent heavy water dispersant they use (don't mistake WD-40 for an adequate chain lube)actually will enter the sealed area via micro cracks in the ring faces. The solvent in the product will soften the pre-injected lubricant and help it to find a way out.
Bear in mind that it only takes ONE ring to be damaged, and allow dirt and grit in and lube out, to start the demise of the chain drive.
With just one reel seeing contamination, there will be excess wear at that reel..and that particular pitch will be longer than the rest of the pitches that aren't damaged, and as a result that one bad link is traveling around the sprockets and meeting different teeth each time around. Eventually the bad link will have eaten away at the sprocket teeth.
In that situation, the rider way well not be having to adjust the chain for tension, since it's just one link that is elongating at a fast rate. But, the sprocket teeth are starting to show some wear. Often times riders will start to blame the sprockets for not being able to withstand the beastly motor of their bike, when in fact it is ONE (or most likely more) bad reel(s) causing their sprocket problems.
Another thing to consider is adjustment of the chain. More often than not, a rider will have his chain too tight. It may be that the chain seems fine tension wise, but if it is just a wee bit too tight, it will see excess tension every time the shock compresses to a certain point.
Each time a tight chain sees excess tension, the wear surfaces will see a tremendous amount of heat at the micro level. Quite often more heat and pressure than the lubricant can protect from.
As a result, the chain will wear at a faster rate than normal. Also, in that situation, the chain will also help to ruin the working faces of the sprocket teeth, as well as help to kill your countershaft bearings, wheel bearings, etc...
I know that this statement will bring about some controversy...but, realize that even though a ring chain may well appear to be less maintenance than a standard chain, they are in fact more maintenance intense. It is imperative that you check for physical ring damage, as well as checking for kinks in the chain, which is a tell-tale sign of ring damage.
The standard chain can continue to be lubricated on a regular basis. You can keep fresh lubricant going to ALL the friction points. And as a result, you can keep a standard chain alive much longer than you can the ring chain.
If I were to run an automatic oiler, such as the Scott...I would use it for a standard roller chain, and forget the ring chain.
When you use a Scott Oiler, realize that all you are lubricating is the roller/bushing friction points, and the rings themselves.
The pin/bushing area (where the majority of wear that elongates the chain occurs) is protected by pre-injected lubricant. There should be no lubricant seeping out, and nothing getting in...including lubricant.
For the most part, your chain longevity is dependant on how long the pre-injected lubricant continues to provied the pin/bushing area protection. Once that protection has been depleted, there is nothing you can do. You can turn the oiler all the way up, or hand lube every five minutes...it won't change the results. The chain will be on a fast downhill spiral with no way to slow or stop it. and your sprockets will be on the trek down with it, as it is an elongated chain that wears the sprockets.
Everything above was mentioned considering a perfect world.
However, the world is far from perfect when it comes to chains lasting. If you have a fairly new ring chain of any sort, and it is requiring adjustment on a regular basis, then there may well be a problem.
Most often riders will have a ring chain that has some rings that are damaged. Often they may find a ring(s) that have been torn due to a road or trail hazzard, which can allow the lubricant to seep out and contaminants, like water and grit, to get in.
Other times the rings will not have any physical damage that you can see. But there may well be rings that have small creases in them that can allow lube out and dirt in. These little creases in the ring sealing faces can be caused by several things, but normally it happens because the rider has been misinformed about the maintenance required for ring chains, and don't do much of anything in the way of lubricating the chain. They have been told they are maint. free, and as a result, they neglect doing anything, short of spraying a little WD-40 from time to time.
Without proper lubricating for the rings themsleves, they can damage themselves just from normal operation. And to make matters worse, the solvent heavy water dispersant they use (don't mistake WD-40 for an adequate chain lube)actually will enter the sealed area via micro cracks in the ring faces. The solvent in the product will soften the pre-injected lubricant and help it to find a way out.
Bear in mind that it only takes ONE ring to be damaged, and allow dirt and grit in and lube out, to start the demise of the chain drive.
With just one reel seeing contamination, there will be excess wear at that reel..and that particular pitch will be longer than the rest of the pitches that aren't damaged, and as a result that one bad link is traveling around the sprockets and meeting different teeth each time around. Eventually the bad link will have eaten away at the sprocket teeth.
In that situation, the rider way well not be having to adjust the chain for tension, since it's just one link that is elongating at a fast rate. But, the sprocket teeth are starting to show some wear. Often times riders will start to blame the sprockets for not being able to withstand the beastly motor of their bike, when in fact it is ONE (or most likely more) bad reel(s) causing their sprocket problems.
Another thing to consider is adjustment of the chain. More often than not, a rider will have his chain too tight. It may be that the chain seems fine tension wise, but if it is just a wee bit too tight, it will see excess tension every time the shock compresses to a certain point.
Each time a tight chain sees excess tension, the wear surfaces will see a tremendous amount of heat at the micro level. Quite often more heat and pressure than the lubricant can protect from.
As a result, the chain will wear at a faster rate than normal. Also, in that situation, the chain will also help to ruin the working faces of the sprocket teeth, as well as help to kill your countershaft bearings, wheel bearings, etc...
I know that this statement will bring about some controversy...but, realize that even though a ring chain may well appear to be less maintenance than a standard chain, they are in fact more maintenance intense. It is imperative that you check for physical ring damage, as well as checking for kinks in the chain, which is a tell-tale sign of ring damage.
The standard chain can continue to be lubricated on a regular basis. You can keep fresh lubricant going to ALL the friction points. And as a result, you can keep a standard chain alive much longer than you can the ring chain.
If I were to run an automatic oiler, such as the Scott...I would use it for a standard roller chain, and forget the ring chain.
Jaybird,
Interesting information and read. The only thing I have to go off of is personal experience and what other people observe regarding chain oilers and ring chains and that is the life of the chain is increased when an oiler is correclty employed. I also hope to decrease the amount of sprocket wear, something I've seen happen regardless of how much lube is on the inside of the chain. I suspect that having some lube is better than no lube in this area.
Of course this is not scientific in the least sense, but I haven't truly seen anything scientific stating otherwise.
Ethan
2005 ZX6R
2000+ miles w/no adjustment needed
Interesting information and read. The only thing I have to go off of is personal experience and what other people observe regarding chain oilers and ring chains and that is the life of the chain is increased when an oiler is correclty employed. I also hope to decrease the amount of sprocket wear, something I've seen happen regardless of how much lube is on the inside of the chain. I suspect that having some lube is better than no lube in this area.
Of course this is not scientific in the least sense, but I haven't truly seen anything scientific stating otherwise.
Ethan
2005 ZX6R
2000+ miles w/no adjustment needed
love your posts Jaybird, keep them on their toes. can i use my used fork oil in a can to lube my o ring chain. seems to me to be ideal, seal conditioners, light enough not to accumulate dirt and plenty of it.
i mixed some with a PTFE gear lube additive which i don't EVER want to use in a box again ( coz of the ptfe settling out in the bottom of my container of home brewed chain lube ) and all is ok if not a little messy.
i know your preference for dry wax lubes (i think) but i do a little rain riding, so like to keep a little anti rust coating on things.
p.s. bike is a 92 fatboy which i converted after breaking a belt during a "show off" to a crowd hahaha
i mixed some with a PTFE gear lube additive which i don't EVER want to use in a box again ( coz of the ptfe settling out in the bottom of my container of home brewed chain lube ) and all is ok if not a little messy.
i know your preference for dry wax lubes (i think) but i do a little rain riding, so like to keep a little anti rust coating on things.
p.s. bike is a 92 fatboy which i converted after breaking a belt during a "show off" to a crowd hahaha
The oil will definately help the sealing rings to stay pliable, and the teflon would definately help to keep the roller/bushing area from wearing. It won't stay as long as moly would, and for a standard chain I would worry about how long any of that lubricant would say in place, but it would definaely be fine for a ring chain.
BTW...I lobby against wax chain lubes of any sort or fashion. Unless you are using it for a corrosion protection layer.
Folks report having good luck with chain waxes, but they would see better results with a more suitable chain lube.
BTW...I lobby against wax chain lubes of any sort or fashion. Unless you are using it for a corrosion protection layer.
Folks report having good luck with chain waxes, but they would see better results with a more suitable chain lube.
Interesting that Triumph states not to use a Scottoiler, as very few of their machines use manifold vacuum for calculating air mass ingested. Perhaps they are worried about the fuel pressure regulator being thrown off. Are all three vacuum ports connected via hose for the fuel pressure regulator?
The oil that comes in a Scottoiler is apparently Marvel Mystery Oil, per the US importer. It can be had for a lot less thanthe Scottoiler "official" refill oil.
On the question of chain wear with o-ring chains, one item has not been discussed. That would be sprocket wear. Aluminum sprockets are especially prone to this issue. Without proper lubriaction between the rollers and the sprocket teeth, the teeth will be worn narrower over time. Even if the o-rings are all intact, there will be greatly increased metal-to-metal wear between pins and end plates due to the additional stresses put on the chain when run with a sprocket with narrowed teeth. This is why proper lubrication is essential for chain longevity even when an o-ring chain is used. Good chain lube acts as a buffer, preventing the majority of wear on the sprocket. This is why chain wax is generally not nearly as good as a petroleum-based lube; the wax does not bond to the metal enough to provide a buffer (like moly might). However, it does hold up significantly better in wet weather, and it is essentually impervious to dust and grit once the carrier has evaporated away. I use chain wax for cable lube and chain lube in extremely wet or extremely dusty conditions, and use proper non-flinging chain lube in all other situations.
As a last aside, I've seen a 630 o-ring chain on an FJ1200 go 45,000 miles without significant wear on chain or sprockets. That's about double the mileage I generally expect to get from an o-ring chain and sprockets, and this is a heavy, high-powered bike that likes to cruise well in excess of any posted speed limit in North America. If set up properly, there will never be a time when the chain is lacking for surface lubrication; it's the times you forget to lube your chain that cause the wear to start, and once itstarts it's only a matter of time before the wear "exponentiates" (a term I coined to describe how failure modes accelerate roughly logarithmically over time), and you're buying a new chain and sprockets.
The oil that comes in a Scottoiler is apparently Marvel Mystery Oil, per the US importer. It can be had for a lot less thanthe Scottoiler "official" refill oil.
On the question of chain wear with o-ring chains, one item has not been discussed. That would be sprocket wear. Aluminum sprockets are especially prone to this issue. Without proper lubriaction between the rollers and the sprocket teeth, the teeth will be worn narrower over time. Even if the o-rings are all intact, there will be greatly increased metal-to-metal wear between pins and end plates due to the additional stresses put on the chain when run with a sprocket with narrowed teeth. This is why proper lubrication is essential for chain longevity even when an o-ring chain is used. Good chain lube acts as a buffer, preventing the majority of wear on the sprocket. This is why chain wax is generally not nearly as good as a petroleum-based lube; the wax does not bond to the metal enough to provide a buffer (like moly might). However, it does hold up significantly better in wet weather, and it is essentually impervious to dust and grit once the carrier has evaporated away. I use chain wax for cable lube and chain lube in extremely wet or extremely dusty conditions, and use proper non-flinging chain lube in all other situations.
As a last aside, I've seen a 630 o-ring chain on an FJ1200 go 45,000 miles without significant wear on chain or sprockets. That's about double the mileage I generally expect to get from an o-ring chain and sprockets, and this is a heavy, high-powered bike that likes to cruise well in excess of any posted speed limit in North America. If set up properly, there will never be a time when the chain is lacking for surface lubrication; it's the times you forget to lube your chain that cause the wear to start, and once itstarts it's only a matter of time before the wear "exponentiates" (a term I coined to describe how failure modes accelerate roughly logarithmically over time), and you're buying a new chain and sprockets.
Adam,
The wear you see on the sprocket teeth will normally not happen from the wear that occurs at the roller/bushing area. Yes, it needs to be lubricated even on a ring chain, but when the teeth start to show visible wear, it will be due to the wear at the pin/bushing area, and the pitch elongating as a result.
As the pitch elongates, the roller rides up the working face of the tooth further and further, which in itself will cause it to deform.
The sprocket tooth itself never sees much damage from a worn roller, as it is the roller ID that sees most of the friction. (And BTW...the pins are interfaced with the side plates solidly... there is no movement between the two.)
Only when the internal lubricant has started to deplete, will the chain start to change pitch and deform the sprocket teeth.
The wear you see on the sprocket teeth will normally not happen from the wear that occurs at the roller/bushing area. Yes, it needs to be lubricated even on a ring chain, but when the teeth start to show visible wear, it will be due to the wear at the pin/bushing area, and the pitch elongating as a result.
As the pitch elongates, the roller rides up the working face of the tooth further and further, which in itself will cause it to deform.
The sprocket tooth itself never sees much damage from a worn roller, as it is the roller ID that sees most of the friction. (And BTW...the pins are interfaced with the side plates solidly... there is no movement between the two.)
Only when the internal lubricant has started to deplete, will the chain start to change pitch and deform the sprocket teeth.
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