Does anyone use Harley brand 360 motor oil?

[Bagger_Matt]

I run Amsoil in my bike but today a Harley cert. master tech told me that he only uses harley oil.
He said there shop never has an oil related engine problems and the oil is half the price of amsoil? Does the extra MPG amsoil gives me justify the price?

 

[fuel tanker man]

The two longest documented running Harleys both went well beyond 400,000 miles on the Harley dino (360) oil on 2500 mile OCI's.

I don't know how the Amsoil would do in the long run, but I think in order to get your money's worth out of the Amsoil (or any pricey syn for that matter) you've got to commit a big "no no,"

which is to extend the drains.

Lots of folks take issue with my position, and that's fine. But there are too many TERRIBLE motorcycle UOA's circulating around (many of them in the archives here) which show that synthetics do indeed shear down in motorcycles, and they do not protect the engine any better than dinos. From what I've seen, the best UOA's for Harleys have all been on good dino oils.

Too, there is some evidence (however anecdotal at this point) that would support the notion that synthetics are not as adept as putting the zinc/phos barrier down in the proper amounts to prevent metal to metal contact at extreme pressure locations. Some engines may not need such a thick barrier additive layer, but others might.

For my Harley engine, I'll not be running syns any more. I did go about 5000 miles on Mobil 1, but have since come to my senses and now run Havoline 20W50 dino for 2000 to 2500 mile intervals. Standby for an FWIW...

I used to get a bothersome "squeak" at idle from time to time in the top end of my engine with the Mobil 1. After switching to the dino oil, I've yet to hear that squeak again. Coincidence? Maybe. But maybe not.

If the oil shears early (which the synthetics are not immune to) or if it is contaminated early on in some way, you'll be doing your engine a terrible disservice by extending that drain to 5000 miles.

My new plan is to change the Havoline 20W50 (car oil) out every 2000 miles in my '94 Evolution. I'll change the filter every other time (at 4000 miles; it's no problem for the filter to handle 5000+ miles of running so there's no use wasting money on a new filter for the 2000 mile first drain).

This way, I've always got pretty fresh oil in the engine, and it costs me less than FOUR DOLLARS to change the oil.

Here is my latest 2500 mile UOA with the Havoline 20W50 car oil. It's one of the best on the board, if not the best (if I do say so myself)!

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=000023


Good luck in your decision...


Dan

 

[Bagger_Matt]

Thanks Dan, I can get harley products for 10% over dealer cost. So maybe my next change will be a back to 360 oil?

 

[o2man98]

If you are going to run the Harley Dino why not go to WalMart and picked up Dino for a dollar something? Harley's synthetic is now $.60 more than the new Amsoil MCV.

Ken

 

[fuel tanker man]

The Harley oils are made by Citgo nowadays. Sunoco used to have the contract.

The Harley 20W50 dino oil does a good job--of course. But I don't believe it to be any better (and the base stock is probably a lower grade) than Havoline or Pennzoil.

The add pack on the Harley oil is pretty stout, and that might incline one towared choosing it.

You really won't go wrong with the Harley labeled dino oils--other than cost. My local shop puts the 360 on sale for 1.99 a quart at least once a month. I think it's normally about 2.89 per quart or something like that.

If I were going to pay near 3 dollars for a dino oil, I'd take a hard look at some of the more robust Valvoline products (how about Maxlife 20W50?). Or the high mileage Pennzoil 20W50 if you can find it.

I decided a while back that the conventional Havoline 20W50 had pleny of ZDDP to do the job. (It actually has more ZDDP than the Syn3 Harley oil!) So I figured I'd run the Havoline for 2500 miles and do a UOA and see what it looked like. I'm glad I did...

But again, the HD 360 oil will serve you well. Just try to get it for as close to 2 bucks a quart as you can.

Change it every 2500 miles and you'll be all set...

Dan

 

[SKUNKY]

Hey Dan..have you had that Havoline in 90*+ weather sitting at a stop light yet?? If so..did ya get heat rattle or low oil pressure?? I'm using the Rev Tech 25-60 here in Arkansas in my 90 EVO and could'nt be happer..I got caught in Branson traffic at 95* for about 3 miles..the oil pressure stayed at 15# and the motor just purred..but at 3.00 a qt. I'm looking to change..I will go back to the Delo 15-40 for the winter rides..it worked real well in the cold..thanks

 

[fuel tanker man]

Skunky,

I have run that bike on three different days in 90+ weather, and on one day it was actually 102 degrees.

Very little burn off--definitely less oil loss between changes than Mobil 1 15W50 car oil.

I did not see or hear any signs that the oil was breaking down.

I'm getting close to draining this second run of Havoline 20W50 and we'll see how it looks. It was so hot that 102 degree day that the engine pre-ignited and didn't want to stop running when I made a stop in Danville, VA. I guess it ran on for two or three seconds...

So I've definitely "acid tested" that oil. I think I'm going to drain it at 2200 miles, or maybe 2300. I'll get a UOA on it and if wear metals are good, and it's still a 40 weight, I'll be pleased.

If those three hot days did the oil in, I'll have to reconsider my choice--at least for hot summer riding.

Should be in the next couple weeks--maybe sooner...

Dan

 

[SKUNKY]

Should be in the next couple weeks--maybe sooner...

I'll be waiting for the results ...thanks Dan

 

[fuel tanker man]

The service plan Harley is selling nowadays calls for 2500 mile changes on the oil. They used to recommend 5K changes, but I think they finally realized how much these engines can shear a motor oil--even a synthetic motor oil.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002060#000000

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001140#000000

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000978#000007

Even the Mobil 1 V-Twin sheared down in 2100 miles...

It takes less than ten minutes to change the oil and filter. If you change the oil every 2000 miles with a good dino oil, and the filter every 4000 miles (every other change) I think that's the most protection for your money...

Dan

 

[msparks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Superglide:
I run Amsoil in my bike but today a Harley cert. master tech told me that he only uses harley oil.
He said there shop never has an oil related engine problems and the oil is half the price of amsoil? Does the extra MPG amsoil gives me justify the price?

---

On a quart by quart basis it might be 1/2 the price. If your going to change your oil every 1500 to 2000 miles then go with the 360 stuff. If you would like to extend your drains out, Amsoil is recommended for 2 times what the manufacture recommends. HD is 5000 so you should have no problem running this stuff 10,000 miles.

Secondly, if you don't run in the heat, stop and go driving or run at super high speeds then I'm sure the 360 dino would work okay.

With the Amsoil product, expect 20-50 degree temp reduction during high stress operation (stop and go, high speed, and high temps)

All and all, I think the Amsoil is a good value, especially when you compare it to the Harly Syn 3 product that is out. I wouldn't even call it a synthetic.

 

[msparks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:

I don't know how the Amsoil would do in the long run, but I think in order to get your money's worth out of the Amsoil (or any pricey syn for that matter) you've got to commit a big "no no,"

which is to extend the drains.


Good luck in your decision...


Dan

---

Why do you say that? Doesn't HD recommend 5k drains? If you are running Amsoil you can be assured that you can go at least that.

2500 mile oil change, man that would be like once a month for me in the summer. No way I'm gonna do that. I run mine 6,000-8,000 or once a year.

 

[fuel tanker man]

I drained the Havoline 20W50 at 2394 miles. I had to top it off with about 4 ounces at about 1800 miles. I decided to use 4 ounces of Valvoline Synpower Oil Treatment.

This was the run which had a LOT of major hot weather miles on it. 95 to 102 degree riding for at least 800 of those miles--probably 900.

I must admit that the oil looked hammered. Seemed pretty thin...

I'll get it off to Blackstone on Monday and we'll see what's in the tea leaves.

Dan

 

[wizzells]

Harley themselves recommend a 5k OCI for engine oil. The dealership I work at suggests 2500 on the oil. And yes, everything that says Harley on it is overpriced. I, for one, would not feel comfortable running the HD-360 or any other dino in an air cooled engine approaching 240 degrees. These engines are pretty murderous on oil - especially the carbed bikes cuz you get so much fuel dilution. To me, that just begs for problems. Especially if you have any engine mods, e.g. big bore, pipes and air cleaner, or anything beyond stock for that matter. We recommend Redline (I know how much you love them fuel tanker

) for the people that have "other than stock" drivetrains.

 

[fuel tanker man]

I do agree on the short OCI's--no argument there. But that's also why I like an under two dollar a quart dino so I can drain early.

I should have the Havoline 20W50 UOA back this evening, or at least by tomorrow. That'll tell me whether the Havoline can handle hot weather riding, as I put about 900 miles on the oil in temps above 95 F, and one particular day it was 102 degrees...

The engine was so hot on the 102 degree day that it pre-ignited (dieseled) when I shut it off in Danville, VA. It had never done that before...

I'm figuring on draining the oil every 2000 miles, and changing the filter every 4000 miles. I feel pretty confident that the HD oil filter (and I'm using the longer, extra capacity Evolution 30 micron filter) will handle at least 4000 miles of filtering.

If the hot weather Havoine UOA shows that the oil has sheared to a 30 weight, or if my wear metals are up, I'll reconsider my plan--and perhaps even re-consider a synthetic for hot weather riding. We'll see...

Dan

 

[fuel tanker man]

My bike is stock except for some carb re-jetting to go with the Python II pipes.

I don't know how hot the oil got that day, as I don't have a temperature gauge on it.

The oil pressure remained acceptable (presumably) since the light didn't come on.

I hope Blackstone gets my report to me this evening...

Dan

 

[LVHospiceRN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
I have run that bike on three different days in 90+ weather, and on one day it was actually 102 degrees.

Very little burn off--definitely less oil loss between changes than Mobil 1 15W50 car oil.

It was so hot that 102 degree day that the engine pre-ignited and didn't want to stop running when I made a stop in Danville, VA. I guess it ran on for two or three seconds...

So I've definitely "acid tested" that oil. I think I'm going to drain it at 2200 miles, or maybe 2300. I'll get a UOA on it and if wear metals are good, and it's still a 40 weight, I'll be pleased.

If those three hot days did the oil in, I'll have to reconsider my choice--at least for hot summer riding.

Should be in the next couple weeks--maybe sooner...

Dan

---

How is the engine tuned? Stock or otherwise...

My 92 FXSTC has a EVO 3 cam/S&S Carb/Drag pipes...i have rode it frequently in stop and go traffic here in vegas with temps over 110 degrees...with dino oil (harley) it would run oil temps in the tank of up too 210 degrees...a switch sometime ago shows a max temp of around 175-185 now...no other changes...verified with a different oil tank temp. gauge...

Never had a "run on" problem at all...although with the cam/carb change it is cold blooded initially on start up...

darrell
sin city

 

[fuel tanker man]

In the Motorcycle UOA's...

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=52&t=000043#000000

 

[211311]

Got the 10,000 mi service pkg with my 2005 flht. I had the SYN3 installed in all 3 holes at 1000 and again in the engine at 2500 mi. Gonna use Harley stuff till 10,000 miles, after that maybe not. I think that the 360, Havoline, or any 20w50 dino would be fine for 2500 service intervals.