Amsoil New oil vs Maxima Maxum4 Extra oil.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jul 31, 2002
Messages
343
Location
MA
I have used Amsoil since 1994 in all my engines and like their oils. I am thinking about switching my bike (Suzuki gsxr1100) to Maxium Extra 4 oil since there ZDDP and CA are WAY higher. Plus the price for the Maxium, it is cheaper then Amsoils oil even at dealer price.

I believe Amsoil is a group 4 (PAO) and Maxima is a group5 (ester-based)

Here is what I found for oil tests:

Amsoil’s new stuff;

20w-50 Motorcycle bike oil (NEW): HTHS =6.02
TBN=11.0
VI=153
Noack Volatility=3.89%
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C=20.1 cSt
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C=151 cSt
CCS=5609
Pour point=-38 F
Flash Point=464 F
ZDDP 1031 & 946
Ca 3852

Maxima Extra 4 15w-50
TBN 12 (new)
Phos 3300+ppm (based on used with 2400+ miles)
zinc 2400+ppm (based on used with 2400+ miles)
HTHS: 5.5 (new)
VI 164 (new)
KV @ 100: 17.42 (new)
KV @ 40: 116.8 (new)

Any thoughts? Good, bad???
 
The Amsoil 10w-40 will give you better performance and cooler engine temps than either of these oils. That's the Amsoil product to use in all these high rpm, Japanese Superbikes and it's almost 100% shear stable.

I'd reserve the Amsoil 20w-50 for use in lower rpm, air cooled Harleys and similar models....

Tooslick
 
Amsoil normal 10W or there new bike oil? Since you can use both in bikes.

I know Amsoil new bike is this:

10w-40 Motorcycle bike oil (NEW)
HTHS= 4.52
VI= 152
TBN 11.0
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C=13.9 cSt
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C=93 cSt
CCS=6794
Pour point=-51 F
Flash Point=453 F
ZDDP 1358 & 1245 (about 300ppm more then there old bike oil)
Ca 3094 ppm

Maxima Extra 10w-40 is about the same Zddp and:

VI: 144
TBN 12
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C=12.5 cSt
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C=82 cSt
Pour point=-30 F
Flash Point=432 F

So far the shear stable is within 5.2% (very small) and is again cheaper then Amsoil. The only thing I can see is better with Amsoil is there Ca level is higher I believe and a 4.6% higher flash with Amsoil.

But then Max has over 1000ppm of Antinomy
 
Here is some info from Amsoil I recently got.

quote:

ALL of our engine oils are built on pure group IV PAO base stocks with the exception of our entry-level XL series oils.

A buddy has put about 6000 miles on the new Amsoil in his 2003 big Kawasaki(total about 14,000 mi) road bike. He never used any oil in those miles, all put in since May. They spent 4 weeks crusing USA and only got back a week or two ago. Yesterday he was changing it over the the new 20W-50 since he does not ride in cold weather and it planning on another long run this fall. I guess this last run was in some very hot weather and said the bike performed perfectly. Mich-Texas and who knows where else. He is raving about the oil, his son works for a Yamaha dealer and has been using the oil for years. Now he had the old man convinced its the best, he saud he order a couple cases of 15W-40 for his diesel SD F350 Ford and it going Amsoil whole hog.

[ August 05, 2005, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]
 
I use the new MCV 20W50 and love it. I've run two tanks of gas in my Harley since I switched to Amsoil. Both tanks got 10 more miles to the tank then other oils. I switch the primery and trans too. My bike always got 43 miles to the gallon, but with amsoil it gets 44.9 miles per gallon. Plus I only have to change it once a year.
 
I've used the Amsoil 10w-40 (old version) in my VTR1000 and then switched to Maxima Ultra 5w-40. I will be going back to the Amsoil next change for sure. I think Maxima Extra 10w-40 would have been a better choice for street use, but, oh well, lesson learned. I really like the Amsoil when it was in so I'm going back to that.
 
I'm not a convinced fan of more than double the levels of extreme pressure additives, too much can sludge an engine.

I've got a 400 motard, that's always ran 5w/10w40's , usually coming out of a Deep Hollow on the road, full throttle with the thinner oils I can hear a little piston rock, but considered normal for this bike, and I ran it that way for about 30,000 miles. Then I tried some $13 perquart Motul , noise under same condition had really dissipated that noise barely notable, but that stuff is pretty expensive and still contaminated about like a normal syn oil.

When I went to the 20w50 AMSoil $6 cheaper , same benefit on the noise and I can get 2000+ miles out of it with less aluminum in the oil dump in comparison to 5w/10w40's.

The new 20w50 is a little thicker by the numbers, I haven't tried. AS far as engine coolnest it's hard to beat the 20w50 even in watercooled bikes and I've ran just about every 5w/10w40 on the market worthy to be put in my bike, ams is very cool running, nothing I've ran has run cooler and good shifting which I attribute to the heavier viscosity.
 
quote:

Originally posted by mburnickas:
thedawk
What is the delta between their ultra and extra?


Extra 10W-40 Ultra 5W-40
Viscosity SUS @ 100°F 440 390
Viscosity SUS @ 210°F 68.3 68.9
Viscosity cSt @ 40°C 82.2 74.5
Viscosity cSt @ 100°C 12.5 12.66
Pour Point, °F -30 -50
Flash Point, °F 432 424
Viscosity Index 144 171

These are the specs right off their website. I don't know for sure because I havn't done a UOA but the Ultra 5w-40 has probably sheared down quite a bit. The shifting is very notchy now, much worse than with the amsoil. I've got about 1800 miles on the oil now and I'm ready to dump it for Amsoil. I can't wait to try the new Amsoil 10W-40.
 
Personally having good luck with Maxima Ultra 5W40. Alot of riding buddies are giving very positive feedback on the Extra 15W50. I personally think Maxima did themselves a big disfavour by formulating their XW40 grades so thin that they're borderline XW30 SAE (12.5 for Extra, 12.66 for Ultra)

This has a huge negative perception impact on folks who do not read beyond the SAE rating and expect it to shift with the same kind of cushy 'feel' as a thicker 40 grade in the 13.5~16.29 cst range. If that's what you're after, go for their Ultra 5W50, it is just 0.01 cst short of a 40. I notice the thinner oils do get a little notchy when shifting at low rpms but they are right at home tearing down the track in my revvy R6, excellent shifting all round with rpms hovering 10k~15.5k

Ultra apparently contains a decent load of moly from a Sportrider comparo which Extra do not have. Also Ultra is made of the same polyol ester stuff Redline is reknown for. I happened to run Delvac 1 just for kicks prior to Ultra, can feel a significant drop in smoothness after a hot track day. Ultra held up very well in a subjective comparison. Going to do a UOA when I'm ready to change out the oil for a more objective view.
 
I should have asked this question above better, sorry.. What is the difference between Ultra and Extra (add pkg wise)? Example, boron, moly, Zddp (zinc & phos), Ca etc etc.
 
quote:

Ultra apparently contains a decent load of moly

Don't a lot MC's recommed oils without friction modifiers (Moly) or those labeled as "Energy Conserving"?

Check your owners manual and lets me know...
 
Alot of M/C oils, especially those intended for track use, do contain a dose of moly. They still conform to the fiction requirements of JASO MA. Torco has a huge dose and so does Motul Factoryline for bikes.

mburnickas, I emailed the same question to Maxima, they told me that they both contain very similar additive packages (constituents and quantity), with the exception that the Ultra has a dose of 'organic moly' which the Extra does not have. Strange yes, and I would have serious doubts if not because the aforementioned sportrider comparo which did VOA on both their semi and extra grades yielded similar TBN and levels of zinc/phosphorus.
 
Interesting info on the Maxima line. I chose the %w-40 because my bike does recommend a 10w-40 and I thought the 5w-50 maight be to heavy. Maybe I'll give it a try next. I was initially concerned about how a 5w-50 would hold up in a street application, though. I'm afraid it would shear down rather quickly.
 
Well since I can get Amsoil at cost (dealer) I am going to stick with Amsoil's new bike oil for like $6.XX. It has worked great for 12 years, why switch?
 
Good man, if it ain't broke.....
smile.gif
 
I need to ask this, I have observe too from the sports rider magazine that Maxima Engine oil register higher or rather excessive dosage of ZDDP.

Will there be any adverse effect other then hurting the catalytic converters in the exhaust?
 
Think the whole zddp and catalyst thing is driven by the EPA mandate to the manufactures on how long the cats have to last (or be effective). Seems as that number has increased over the years (over 100,000 miles now) the oems aren't taking any chances.

From what I've seen on high mile BMW's with cats, the pipes fail due to heat and rust long before the zddp in the oil kills them.

Soot from hdeo oil is something that I recently read about as a potential problem? but again the oems probably aren't taking any chances.
 
When the new pc-10 spec diesel oils come into play in 2007, ash and soot should not be a problem. Ash levels will be 1 %. The new oils will be more rugged to deal with low sulphur levels in diesel fuel. This all adds up to fine motorcycle oils.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top