red cap vs gold cap ht/hs

dustyjoe1 · May 8, 2005

I just purchased some gold cap m1 15w50 for my kz1000p and in researching the new specs I noted the following. The moly and boron are almost identical to the motorcycle mx4t 10w40 ( thanks to stinky Peterson's analysis) and on the down side the Ht/hs is reduced from the old red cap's awesome 5.11...it is now 4.4 something. This should still be more than enough, but I wonder if anything else was downsided during the "improvement" of this oil. Comments and experiences with the new gold cap appreciated.

thanks,

r.

dustyjoe1 · May 11, 2005

Well, I had to try the gold cap. First Impression: Bike doesn't like it. Engine runs ok, but the clutch case area sounds like a tin can full of rocks at idle. Not sure if its oil related, but its the only thing I changed.

RiverRat · May 11, 2005

What kind of bike Joe? I was getting ready to switch from the M1 20W-50 V-Twin oil to the 15W-50 Gold Cap. This oil stuff is giving me a headache.

RiverRat · May 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by dustyjoe1:
and on the down side the Ht/hs is reduced from the old red cap's awesome 5.11...it is now 4.4 something.

In another VOA, the old red cap had 4.77 HTHS and the new had 4.90.

dustyjoe1 · May 11, 2005

95 kawasaki police 1000 - Air cooled J engine

I want to check the clutch adjustment and double check the oil filter before I dump 20 bucks worth of oil though.... it did run nice at speed though.
I know what you mean about which oil, I'm almost ready to give up and just put pennzoil dino 10w40 and a fram filter...probably what the cops run anyway

dustyjoe1 · May 12, 2005

problem Identified, it wasn't oil related (well, not directly). the bike has 65,000 miles on it. Chatted with a local kaw dealer and was told that as the bike ages the clutch cage tends to get a little grooved by the clutch plates thus creating some play..which can give rise to the "tin can full of rocks" noise at idle, He said not to worry about it. Sounds logical to me. My previous fill was delo 400 and it wasn't making the noise, the bike had been sitting a while before I got it and mayhave been a little sludged in that area, I am thinking the hdeo might have cleaned things up and when I changed it out the gold cap finished making it all squeaky clean, thus the new noise....Thanks for the imput.
r.

JAYCEE · May 13, 2005

So M1 gold cap is A-OK for a wet clutch?

My local Walmart has it on sale & I'd like to grab a couple of years worth.

RiverRat · May 13, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by JAYCEE:
So M1 gold cap is A-OK for a wet clutch?

My local Walmart has it on sale & I'd like to grab a couple of years worth.

should be A-OK for the wet clutch.

How much is the M1 gold cap at WalMart?

dustyjoe1 · May 27, 2005

About 23 bucks and some change for a 5quart jug. by the way, I haven't had any problems with clutch slippage so far. bike runs pretty smooth. I'm pretty happy with it but seems a little thick. probably try the 5w40 truck & suv on the next oci ( probably next year) doesn't look like I'll be riding much this year

honus402 · Jun 2, 2005

Dustyjoe: I put over 120,000 miles on a KZ1000J running Delo 15W-40 without a problem. The engine was still quiet when I sold it. One common problem on the 1000 & 1100 "J" engines was sludging over the exhaust cam. I never saw the problem on my bike with the Delo.

badnews · Jun 13, 2005

I don't know of any current oil that sludges anymore.

That was a problem in the past ...... that no modern oil has anymore .

Or am I wrong ?

Jaybird · Jul 12, 2005

If the temperature exceeds what the oil will withstand, there will be some sludge as a result of the oil degrading.

Sludge can also build up if there is considerable blow-by at the cylinder.

sands · Jul 13, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by honus402:
Dustyjoe: I put over 120,000 miles on a KZ1000J running Delo 15W-40 without a problem. The engine was still quiet when I sold it. One common problem on the 1000 & 1100 "J" engines was sludging over the exhaust cam. I never saw the problem on my bike with the Delo.

That's a pretty good indicator the oil is doing it's job! You don't see too many bikes with that kind of mileage..

badnews · Jul 14, 2005

I won't use it in my motor --- and the Mobil 1 tech said not to use it in a motorcycle with a wet clutch also. It has friction modifiers in it.

Jaybird · Jul 14, 2005

Let me guess...your Mobil tech recommended motorcycle specific MX4T ?

lol

road_rascal · Jul 14, 2005

Badnews- you seem to accept whatever the Mobil tech says as utter solid truth. I've used Mobil 1 15w/50 in my bike for over 55,000 miles, done two UOA's, and never had a problem. Just about every oil produced has friction modifiers. The Mobil tech is just covering is rear. Check out the numerous cycle message boards- especially the Suzuki Bandit and Hyabusa boards where they use Mobil 1 w/o problems.

RiverRat · Jul 14, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by road_rascal:
I've used Mobil 1 15w/50 in my bike for over 55,000 miles, done two UOA's, and never had a problem.

Do you use the new gold cap 15W-50 EP now? I have it in my Suzuki and have noticed the shifting seems to be not as good as Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin. (see my "AMSOIL" thread in my quest to find the perfect oil)

BTW....I lived in Apple Valley for 11 years!

Mackelroy · Jul 15, 2005

River rat,

While I'm sure the Vtwin mobil shift good because of the heavier base. so does ams20w50 and motul 15w50

The best shifting oils? low speed coast no load down shifting or upshifting, that's usually where thinner oils have trouble or more effort sometimes needed.

Have you tried like a redline 10w40, it has alot of molly in it and should be good for shifting?
If you don't get good shifting results with it, your wasting your time in the 10w40 arena, but mx4t is about the best shifting I've ran in 10w40, but I've never tried the redline, but motul is loaded with molly also and shifts good too.

road_rascal · Jul 15, 2005

I still have the old red cap 15w/50 in the crankcase. I'm going to see if I can possibly get to 10,000 miles on it (along with using Lube Control) before I change it out. I had a great report at 6,000 and the TBN still showed 8.6. For some reason the last report was deleted in the UOA and I'm having a moderator try and figure out what happened.

Whenever I feel my bike is begining to shift strange, I usually check the clutch cable and the chain adjustment. But 98% of the time it's the chain when it becomes a little too loose. I only have to tighten it up a 'flat' every 8-10,000 miles.

I may try Mobil 1 5w/40 Truck and SUV oil next in my Honda, as a friend of mine is currently using it in his Bandit 1200 w/o problems, and I think his bike has about 26,000 miles on it, with oil changes at 5-6,000 miles.

badnews · Jul 16, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by road_rascal:
Badnews- you seem to accept whatever the Mobil tech says as utter solid truth. I've used Mobil 1 15w/50 in my bike for over 55,000 miles, done two UOA's, and never had a problem. Just about every oil produced has friction modifiers. The Mobil tech is just covering is rear. Check out the numerous cycle message boards- especially the Suzuki Bandit and Hyabusa boards where they use Mobil 1 w/o problems.

Those are OLD POSTS -- they used the old formulations without problems .. not the current formulation, let us know in a year how it works ???

As for me I do not want to be the TEST CASE .

red cap vs gold cap ht/hs

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