New M1 EP vs Vtwin?

[Huhwhye]

Since M1 15w50 EP has more additives than previous redcap would that make it an even better choice for dry clutch bikes than Vtwin 20w50?

I know people always say that redcap is the way to go even on wet clutch bikes. But if you take the clutch and price out of the equation what protects the motor better? That's the bottom line.

I have a BWM R100 (air cooled, dry clutch)

What about OCI? That's important to me because I do 3000, 5000 and potentially 10,000+ mile rides and changing the oil on the road is a PITA

 

[DNS]

The Mobil1 V-twin also has more aditives than the old red cap. I would expect the V-twin oil to withstand the heat of an air cooled engine better since it was blended with that in mind.

 

[Huhwhye]

Forget the old redcap. How about the new EP stuff. Is it different, they claim for additives and super syn.

I guess I have reservations with the Vtwin oil because It was made to meet the market of a 3 in 1 oil for Harleys. Sounds like a compromise to me. They had to make it compatable for a wet clutch. But Harley Motors have their own oil, trans is separate.

 

[LVHospiceRN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Huhwhye:
Forget the old redcap. How about the new EP stuff. Is it different, they claim for additives and super syn.

I guess I have reservations with the Vtwin oil because It was made to meet the market of a 3 in 1 oil for Harleys. Sounds like a compromise to me. They had to make it compatable for a wet clutch. But Harley Motors have their own oil, trans is separate.

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I felt very comfortable with "red cap" in my 92 FXSTC. Now i am not sure what to change it with. Very interested in hearing others opinions. On the other hand, i am not sure that it makes a huge difference. V-Twin may offer 1.231% more SuperDuperEngineAdditive more than brand x...but does that percent really mean anything. While the synthetics provide much higher flash points if the engine gets that hot, you probably have other "issues".

Just IMHO
darrell
sin city

 

[Huhwhye]

This is Mobil's response to this question

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The 15W50 EP would not meet the requirements that a motorcycle recommends such as the JASO MA spec. Jaso Ma states that the oil meets the friction requirements for a motorcycle. I can not recommend any other oil to you besides the 20W50 V-Twin.

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[Marlin]

quote:

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Originally posted by Huhwhye:
This is Mobil's response to this question

quote:

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The 15W50 EP would not meet the requirements that a motorcycle recommends such as the JASO MA spec. Jaso Ma states that the oil meets the friction requirements for a motorcycle. I can not recommend any other oil to you besides the 20W50 V-Twin.

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Question is did they even test it for that? Why tell someone to use the "cheaper" oil when they have the more $$$ oil that DOES fit the bill.

I used the 15W50 in my wet clutch Honda and it worked GREAT!!! Shifted betterand also got better gas.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

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Originally posted by Huhwhye:
This is Mobil's response to this question

quote:

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The 15W50 EP would not meet the requirements that a motorcycle recommends such as the JASO MA spec. Jaso Ma states that the oil meets the friction requirements for a motorcycle. I can not recommend any other oil to you besides the 20W50 V-Twin.

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That should be no surprise. The 20W-50 was specifically formulated to meet the JASO MA and contain increased levels of zinc and phosphorous.

The 15W-50 EP couldn't do that and meet the current API SL specifications.

 

[DNS]

quote:

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Originally posted by Marlin:

quote:

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Originally posted by Huhwhye:
This is Mobil's response to this question

quote:

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The 15W50 EP would not meet the requirements that a motorcycle recommends such as the JASO MA spec. Jaso Ma states that the oil meets the friction requirements for a motorcycle. I can not recommend any other oil to you besides the 20W50 V-Twin.

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Question is did they even test it for that? Why tell someone to use the "cheaper" oil when they have the more $$$ oil that DOES fit the bill.

I used the 15W50 in my wet clutch Honda and it worked GREAT!!! Shifted betterand also got better gas.

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Of course they didn't test the new car oil for wet clutch use! They came out with the motorcycle oil so they didn't have to formulate and test their car oil for motorcycle use. Earlier formulations of Mobil red cap were known to be wet clutch compatable but the newer formulations contain additives that may (or may not) cause problems with wet clutches.

 

[Huhwhye]

DRY CLUTCH DRY CLUTCH DRY CLUTCH. This is turning into another "car oil is fine for wet clutch thread". Lets try to stay on topic folks

I didn't ask Mobil about wet clutch compatability or ask for a Jaso Ma spec oil. My bike doesn't require either. Its a dry clutch. I asked if the EP additive package would be advantageous in a Air Cooled Dry Clutch motorcycle.

 

[KW]

It might be better than the 15W50 and the 20W50. The only way to know for sure is to try it and see.

From what I have read the M1 bike oils are very sturdy and don't shear down much at all. I don't think the EP stuff has been out long enough for anyone to try it in a bike wet or dry clutch.

 

[tmorris1]

Give it a try and see, since nobody has any idea how the new M1 EP oils will hold up. They are too new. Amsoil makes a pretty good bike oil that I can get for about $6 /qt. A little cheaper than the M1 bike oils ($8 / qt) and about the same as M1 EP.

 

[DNS]

quote:

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Originally posted by Huhwhye:
DRY CLUTCH DRY CLUTCH DRY CLUTCH. This is turning into another "car oil is fine for wet clutch thread". Lets try to stay on topic folks

I didn't ask Mobil about wet clutch compatability or ask for a Jaso Ma spec oil. My bike doesn't require either. Its a dry clutch. I asked if the EP additive package would be advantageous in a Air Cooled Dry Clutch motorcycle.

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You asked if Mobil1 EP would have any advantages over Mobil 1 V-Twin. Based on VOAs I've seen, I think the advantage goes to the V-Twin oil. It appears to have a more robust additive package than the EP and was designed/formulated with air-cooled motorcycles in mind. The only advantage the EP would seem to have for a dry clutch bike is the price. However, unless you're running your bike extremely hard or it goes unused for extended periods you aren't likely to notice much difference.

 

[Mickey_M]

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DNS:
Of course they didn't test the new car oil for wet clutch use! They came out with the motorcycle oil so they didn't have to formulate and test their car oil for motorcycle use. ....

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That is absolutely the case.

The EP oil does not contain the phosphorous and zinc levels needed for motorcycle use.

They also did not test the EP oil for jet engine use, use in the Space Shuttle, as a cooking oil, in helicopter turbines, or for lubricating sewing machines.

Reason?

It's not only not a motorcycle oil, it's not jet engine oil, Space Shuttle lubricant, cooking oil, turbine oil, or sewing machine oil.

 

[Propflux01]

quote:

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Originally posted by Huhwhye:
Since M1 15w50 EP has more additives than previous redcap would that make it an even better choice for dry clutch bikes than Vtwin 20w50?

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No.

 

[Huhwhye]

Not a motorcycle oil? yes you are right. most motorcycle oils are made for wet clutch bikes. How about an oil that provides an extra level of protection for bikes that don't need to worry about clutch compatability.

Tim Could you explain your answer?

A lot of people thought the red cap was an excellent bike oil. Even some Mobil techs. And it seems to me V-Twin oil is a compromise so Mobil can grab a piece of the Harley 3in1 market. And that's a big market since Harley sells so many bikes.

[ February 19, 2005, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Huhwhye ]

 

[DNS]

quote:

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Originally posted by Huhwhye:
Not a motorcycle oil? yes you are right. most motorcycle oils are made for wet clutch bikes. How about an oil that provides an extra level of protection for bikes that don't need to worry about clutch compatability.

Tim Could you explain your answer?

A lot of people thought the red cap was an excellent bike oil. Even some Mobil techs. And it seems to me V-Twin oil is a compromise so Mobil can grab a piece of the Harley 3in1 market. And that's a big market since Harley sells so many bikes.

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There is very little compromise to the Mobil 1 V-twin oil. There are probably more comprises in the Mobil EP oil since it is more price point sensitive. The wet clutch only requires the absence of friction modifiers which have no effect on wear protection. Since the EP oil was blended with water cooled autos in mind, the V-twin oil is most likely the better choice for hotter running engines (air or water cooled).

 

[Huhwhye]

OK, that's makes sense. That's more what I was looking to hear.