Non detergent recommended by JE for piston assembly

[Bailey28]

I am building up a zx11 motor and will have the cylinders bored over .080 to 78mm. The JE site has installation instructions that specify the use of NON DETERGENT motor oil for assembly and
start up. They said not to use any synthetics, or oils with additives until the rings seat.

JE also mentions to lube the wristpins with "Lubriplate" What is this?? Never seen/heard of it before.


What can I use?

 

[XS650]

That sounds like it came right out of a 1950s vintage engine building manual.

There are boatload of different varieties of Lubriplate greases and oils. I suspect they are talking about the old white lithium base Lubriplate that used to be used as an assembly lube and all purpose shop grease in the 1950s. It's good stuff, probably good enough, but suspect modern assembly lubes are better. JE should be able to give you a Lubriplate product number.

There is no way I would run in a modern high performance engine on non-detergent oil, no matter who recommended it, but it's not my engine

If feel like you need to use a non-detergent oil

get a good one like Lubriplate's ND oil, not something from a hardware store or lawn mower shop.

[ November 30, 2004, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: XS650 ]

 

[KW]

Seems reasonable to me. Just be careful with the assembly lube -- it might wreck your clutch. On bikes I normally just use motor oil for assembly lube.

Some piston manufactures are now calling for the pistons and rings to be installed dry. I haven't had the nerve to try that yet.

 

[jsharp]

I'm not sure where some of these opinions come from, even with respected companies. Years back we had a couple of engines built by RC Engineering. They told us not to use Castrol during break-in because it was "too slick", but to use Kendall GT-1 instead.

Ok....

The Lubriplate I imagine JE is talking about is their #105 assembly lube. The normal Lubiplate white lithium grease is far too thick to use on close clearance parts like wrist pins and it just seems like a poor lubricant in this application. The #105 works great though. I've been using it for years.

Mola also had a good assembly lube worked out. So many parts of Schaeffers #132, and so many parts of Supertech oil treatment. One bottle of each I believe. Thin with LC if it's too thick.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000396#000001

I made up some of the Mola stuff and used it on an air compressor I rebuilt last summer and it's *really* tacky yet with any pressure it's slick at the same time.

As far as ND oil, I won't even use it in my lawnmower and it's worn out...

[ December 01, 2004, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[Bailey28]

Great, thanks for the replies. I have always used an assembly lube like the old red permatex or just dino motor oil. Both JE and Ross recommend the use of the ND oil to start with. I think I'm going to stick with the motor oil, then just change it out after a few hours on it.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bailey28:
Great, thanks for the replies. I have always used an assembly lube like the old red permatex or just dino motor oil. Both JE and Ross recommend the use of the ND oil to start with. I think I'm going to stick with the motor oil, then just change it out after a few hours on it.

---

If your cam and rockers or whatever rubs on the lobes in that engine are new, a good moly based assembly lube on the cam lobes would be a good idea. If you're reusing the old ones in the same positions, no need to bother with the good stuff, they already know each other.

 

[medic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bailey28:
The JE site has installation instructions that specify the use of NON DETERGENT motor oil for assembly and
start up. They said not to use any synthetics, or oils with additives until the rings seat.

---

I'm wondering why they are making this specification. I can't imagine running a non detergent oil in any new engine. This is a critical point when the oil is going to see quite a bit of heat. Something is going to have to clean up this mess. I really wonder why they have taken this stand.

I checked the site, and you CAN use oils with additives (without these you would just have a base oil), but not any additives (slick50, duralube, etc..) until the rings have seated. But then, who would want to.

There are still a few high performance part manufacturers for harley that tell you not to use synthetic oil because it is too slippery, causing the needle bearings to skid and flat spot. IMHO, flat spotting needle bearings requires friction - where did this friction come from if the oil is too slippery?

I imagine, by this statement, JE pistons is still stuck in the past. I'm tempted to email them, asking how they came upon this decision.

 

[Shannow]

I always thought that the recomerdation for car engines was "non-FM".

Seems strange that they want to get the detergents out.