CD2 Additive wrecked my clutch!

[Slice]

My high-mileage GL1200 Gold Wing recently started to sound more like a tractor so I decided to try an oil additive designed to silence older noisy engines (I did this once to a CB450 with STP oil treatment, with modest success). Molyslip says on it’s label not recommended for wet clutches, so after reading the label on a bottle of CD2 oil treatment and seeing no warning against wet clutches I added it to my crankcase (the CD2 went in before the oil was added to the crankcase).

About ½ hour’s ride later, I started to experience serious clutch problems. It was almost impossible to shift unless I blipped the throttle, and even then I had to stomp so hard on the shifter I bent it. The higher gears weren’t too bad but downshifting into 2nd was awful and into 1st almost impossible. With the engine shut off shifting is not possible. When shifting into first with the clutch in, the bike wants to pull forward. It’s almost like the bike is glued into gear. The odd thing is that when letting the clutch out in first gear, the clutch now slips.

I have since changed the oil but the problem persists. Servicing the clutch means having to remove the engine. The manual says the disassembled clutch may be cleaned with varsol, so I am considering filling the crankcase with varsol, undoing the spark plug wires, and spinning the engine a few revolutions via the starter to try to work the varsol through the clutch, and finally changing the oil again. A bizarre idea, but it might work. Any scratching of the metal-on-metal parts would be modest (I hope).

I know the smarty-pants-types will scold me for using an additive, but obviously I now know what I did was a big mistake.

What would be really helpful is having someone figure out just what has happened in the clutch area by using the CD2 additive. Does anyone have the knowledge to put forth a theory? Pulling the engine would be a lot of work. Will the varsol idea work?

Paul

 

[Dan4510]

I dont know much about motorcycle clutchss but if your fix doesnt work with the varsol, I would take it to someone who does it for a living.

From the little I know about motorcylces, if the clutches are lubed with the same oil as the engine, it places a different set of constraints on oil than having seperate sumps for trans and motor.

Nonetheless, I hope you get it fixed with a small impact on your wallet.

Dan

 

[XS650]

It sounds like the clutch plates are stuck together. It doesn't take much to make them feel like they are locked together.

Try this first.

Start the bikes and get moving on the bike, pull the clutch lever in and give it a bunch of throttle. That should break your clutch plates free. Then fasten the clutch lever against the handle bar while you stop everything and change oil. Use any cheap dino oil, then ride it a hundred miles or so and change to a good proper oil. A 15W40 HDEO should do a good job on your bike.

If the clutch won't release to let you get rolling after you start it, shut the engine off and put the bike in 1st. You can start out in first by using the electric starter.

If you have trouble shifting it into first, shut off the engine and rock the bike forward and back while you try to gently shift into first, then start the engine.

Never, never, stomp on a MC shift lever.

 

[Propflux01]

Another option: Drain oil. Refill. apply front wheel to a wall, preferrably brick. Without using any gas, put engine into gear, and let out clutch. Don't let teh engine die, but repeat this process, with wall holding bike still. This will release any 'funk' on the steel driven plates of the clutch. Then see if it makes a difference.
Be advised, that the 1200's clutch master cyl has a tendency to leak internally causing the exact same symptoms you are describing, usually within 30 minutes of operation. It may be just coincidence with your problem and putting in the CD2. I cannot see anything in the CD2 that would cause problems, as it it not too much different than STP oil treatment (the thick stuff)

 

[XS650]

Slice, Tim's instructions accomplish the same thing as my instructions, but his are better, easier and safer.

 

[Hirev]

As one who worked on bikes for a living at one time I don't even know where to begin when I read

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even then I had to stomp so hard on the shifter I bent it.

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[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hirev:
As one who worked on bikes for a living at one time I don't even know where to begin when I read

quote:

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even then I had to stomp so hard on the shifter I bent it.

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I missed that, it's right up there with "my bike wouldn't start when it was cold so I set it on fire".

 

[Cujet]

Maybe the noise you had was a mechanical problem and not the clutch. All motorcycles I have owned would shift just fine without using the clutch, as they are a constant mesh trans.

A clue is that it will not shift when not running. Even when rocking the bike back and forth????

Chris

 

[Slice]

Paul here again.

Read the first post in this thread please.

I can understand why adding CD2 oil additive will make a wet clutch slip, but for the life of me I cannot understand why it is now almost impossible to downshift into the lower gears, particularly into first (upper gear range isn't bad).

A coupe of observations:

1) The clutch is hydraulic, so I bled it and replaced the fluid just in case this was the problem, but no improvement.

2) Also replaced the CD2-laced oil with plain 10W30 but no change. Would a second oil change (with perhaps whatever they use to do "engine flushes") help?

3) When I start the bike in gear (clutch in) it wants to pull forward. The brakes will hold the bike back, but it almost stalls.

4) When running the engine with the bike at a standstill, if I rev the bike and force the shifter a bit, I can get it from first into neutral. Next, if I then shut off the bike I can then smoothly shift back & forth between neutral and first. HOWEVER, if I then start the bike and drop it into first (the shifter will balk at this somewhat) it will then absolutley refuse to go back into neutral.

The bike is a Goldwing, which makes it nasty to open it up for an inspection. I know the bike is tired but I am reluctant to rebuild and would like to just get it back to where it was. Most of the bodywork has to come off and the engine pulled just to take a look, so I would like an understanding of the internal dynamics before I start.

I would really like to learn what is happening here. The worst condition relates to downshifting into first, and to a lesser extent getting past first gear when riding. Can anyone explain this?

Many thanks and kudos to the first person who figures this out.

Paul

 

[Hirev]

quote:

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Also replaced the CD2-laced oil with plain 10W30 but no change

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What oil did you use that is made for wet clutches that is a 10w 30? The reason I ask is I don't know of any here in the US. Most API SL "energy conserving" oils are to slick for wet clutches.

 

[Propflux01]

Clutch Master Cylinder. Flushing it will not fix the problem. It is not oil related. Rebiuld teh Cylinder and slave.

 

[Hirev]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tim H.:
Clutch Master Cylinder. Flushing it will not fix the problem. It is not oil related. Rebiuld teh Cylinder and slave.

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I agree it could have a problem with clutch plate air gap and could be from lack of travel of the actuator. But he said he bleed the clutch and did not mention it using hyd fluid. It would be worth looking into though.

quote:

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I cannot understand why it is now almost impossible to downshift into the lower gears, particularly into first (upper gear range isn't bad).

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Nature of the beast with gear boxes.

Its telling me your clutch plates are not separating well or at all.

Higher gears are always easier to go in and out with no clutch. It has to do with the number of teeth on the mainshaft and the countershaft gears.

 

[T-Keith]

According to a VOA on this stuff, it's basically a light mineral oil with fewer addatives then motor oil. Sounds like it caused to much friction, you may have perminent damage.

And I won't say "we told you so".

 

[Propflux01]

Bleeding the clutch will not fix it. The problem lies in the master cylinder. it quits 'pumping' fluid to the slave in pressures high enough to overcome clutch spring pressure. As said before, I do not feel your problem is oil-related.

 

[Slice]

Well thanks for the help everyone!

I fixed the tranny/clutch problem. I used the suggestion of placing the front of the bike against a wall and then starting the engine and letting the clutch out. This caused the rear wheel to spin so I also had to hold onto the brakes. This resulting in the engine running in gear with the wheels stationary, allowing the clutch to slip and burn any crap off the clutch plates to eliminate clutch slippage.

I then shut her down, drained the oil, and refilled the crankcase with varsol

. After this I made sure the kill switch was in the "off" position and spun the engine a number of times (hopefully not scoring the innards too much) totalling about 2 minutes. After that I drained the varsol and refilled with 10W30.

Lo, and behold, the tranny now shifts perfectly, the clutch no longer slips, and the engine is okay! Whaada guy! Sometimes I amuse er, amaze myself.

So now everything is happy. The clutch slippage was understandable, but why would an additive that must have had a friction modifier such as molybendum cause the bike to not want to shift?

Paul

 

[wlkjr]

I had the same symptoms with my GL1200 last year but it was the Master Cylinder.
Maybe you should put more CD2 in and see if you can duplicate the trouble.