Mobil1 V-Twin,smoother shift's

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My freind and I both have Heritage Softails,2004 models,EFI,and he had his first service with M1 V-Twin 20w-50 in all cavieties and he swear's it shift's smoother and the engine is quieter and also smoother. I am glad to hear it because I am getting mine serviced fot the first time today.
 
Well I hate to be the first to post on my own thread,BUUUT!!!,I had my bike serviced and the engine run's quieter and smoother,actually alot quieter when you are running slow. Also the tranny does shift smoother after warm up. M1 must be the ticket,first time I have put it in anything.
 
I was under the impression that the Harley's do not share a tranny with a crankcase, if this is the case, how can shifting be improved, if, after all, it is gear oil instead of the Mobil One?
 
Tim H. The 20w-50 is also in the tranny and the chain case,this was what the dealer wanted to put back in after first 1000 miles service. I know it might sound funny,but I swear the whole bike is smoother,feels like it want's to get out there and run
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Ideally, Mobil 1 V-Twin is preferable for the Harley Davidson. It is approved for all three applications: i.e. engine, primary, gearbox.. And yes, much smoother shifting and you really can feel it in the right hand!
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
Columbus, Ohio
 
George,

I've been using (all M1) Vtwin in the Engine, 75-90 in the tranny and 10-40 4cyl Oil in the Primary. Should I switch to all 20-50?
 
when i put amsoil 10w40 High Performance oil in my kawasaki vn800B "V-twin" it made a world of difference. my fan for my water cooling hardly ever comes on. and the gears are smooth as silk. i also use the amsoil oil filters too
 
Using the Mobil 1 V-Twin in all three applications makes life sooo much easier. Prior to the re-formulation, we had no option and had to use the three different lubes. It was not until the reformulation of Mobil 1 V-Twin that this possibility came to be. The folks who have switched are pleased with all aspects.. For those who switched from Mobil 1 75W-90, not much change in shift action.
With respect to overall lubrication, either regimen is 'creme de la creme'.. Primarily a function of simplicity with the new formulation.
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
Columbus, Ohio
614-492-2000
 
I spent quite a bit of time on the phone the other day with a tech at Mobil. We talked a lot about the VTwin Mobil 1, as well as the 15W50 "Redcap" Mobil 1 car oil.

Here is what I learned:

The "redcap" 15W50 does have friction modifiers in it, but not in as large a quantity as you'll find in 40 weight and lighter oils. Friction modifiers are simply additives that bond to the metal and make things more slippery. It's true that synthetic oil is NOT more slippery than dino oil, but with the addition of friction modifiers it will be. ('course you can put the FM's in the dino oil too...)

That's why Mobil doesn't recommend using the 15W50 redcap in motorcycles which have wet clutch systems. The redcap used to not have the friction mods, but now it does--in small amounts. So if you hear someone tell you that redcap is without friction modifiers, tell them that's old news...

This said, many, many folks very successfully use the current production redcap in their wet clutch bikes and never have any clutch problems. I used it in my Harley Davidson's primary chain case with no clutch problems. The tech said that he was aware that many folks "swore" by the recap 15W50 in their wet clutch bikes, and made no further comment.

As for the 20W50 VTwin Mobil 1 oil...

That oil--as best I could understand between the lines--is aimed at keeping Mobil's share of the Harley Davidson synthetic oil market. Harley now offers their "Screamin' Eagle" Syn3 oil (an oil which according to the MSDS is only about 60 percent synthetic, by the way). Harley claims that this 20W50 Syn3 oil can be used in all three holes on the Harley Davidson motorcycle. This is a convienience issue, however, and not a matter of the best lube in each spot.

Mobil says that technically Harley Davidson could void the factory warranty if one were to use 15W50 oil since the manual calls for a 20W50 oil. That's ridiculous, of course--and the Mobil tech agreed--but nonetheless Mobil had to respond to Harley's Syn3 oil in proper fashion, hence the 20W50 VTwin stuff.

The additive package in the VTwin oil contains about ten percent more phosphorus and zinc than does the redcap 15W50. But here's the thing: Your engine only depends on the phosphorus/zinc content on two occasions. One is when you start the engine up cold. The phosphorus/zinc additive remains attached to the cylinder walls and cam lobes and other places high in the motor and provides lubrication until such time as the oil gets circulated to that part of the engine. Does Mobil 1 15W50 have enough of this additive to provide start-up protection? I asked. "More than enough" answered the tech. I asked him why the VTwin had about ten percent more of the additive and he said that was in case of catastrophic failure of the oil--the "extra" additive would be spread about 10 percent thicker on the engine parts and provide about ten percent more time to get the engine shut down before metal hits metal. If you're thinking "big whoop" so was I. Considering that Mobil 1 Redcap doesn't begin to fail until well over 400 degrees I don't think the oil will ever need to hand over the lube detail to the additive package. I presented the Mobil tech with this notion and he sheepishly agreed.
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So. For the Harley Davidson engine there would seem to be only one good reason for running the VTwin 20W50 over the redcap 15W50 car oil: factory warranty. I said "So let's assume that my factory warranty has expired. How much additional protection--realistically speaking--does the VTwin oil provide my engine over the 15W50 redcap car oil? I mean, considering that neither oil isn't going to break down anywhere this side of 400 degrees, and both oils have more than enough zinc and phosphorous to provide good start-up protection--is it worth double the price for the VTwin oil?" The tech paused a moment, and finally said "If I weren't at work I would tell you to run the 15W50." And that's a direct quote.
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As for the transmission and primary chain case on the Harleys...

The "Three in One" oil
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is a compromise--it's not the best lube for the tranny and the chain case. I know that Amsoil markets their 20W50 for all three spots, but again, that's a new thing, done in response to Harley Davidson's marketing of the Syn3 stuff. Amsoil doesn't want to lose any market share to Harley's Syn3, so forth comes the recommendation. The 20W50 will lube the primary and the tranny, but not as well as seperate, dedicated oils can. Yes, the 20W50 is the best oil for the engine (but actually no better than the redcap 15W50). But the best primary chain oil will be a lighter viscosity for better penetration. Harley Davidson's own "Genuine" primary oil is nothing more than a decent 10W40 oil according to independent sources. So the Mobil tech recommended the MX4T 10W40 motorcycle oil which they now market since it doesn't have friction modifiers which may (and it appears that that is a big "may") be bad for the clutch life. The MX4T is eight bucks a quart also...

For the tranny, we lube gears with gear oil. Mobil 1's synthetic 75W90 is probably the best stuff for this job according to the tech.

So for his "hypothetical Harley" (on a day when he's not at work and not bound by contract to toe the company line, remember) the Mobil 1 tech would use 15W50 in the crankcase (four bucks a quart as opposed to eight for the VTwin oil) and Mobil 1 75W90 in the tranny (better shear strength and cushion to the gears) and MX4T 10W40 (unfortunately eight bucks a quart as well) in the primary case.

For my part, I've got the 15W50 redcap in my engine, the 75W90 Mobil 1 in my gear box, and currently just standard "Genuine!" Harley 10W40 overpriced motor oil in the primary.

I'm going to locate a good synthetic without friction modifiers in the 10W40 weight range for use in the primary when it comes time to change that oil. It may be difficult finding a 10W40 oil without friction modifiers since the government is mandating the inclusion of such additives in lighter oils to promote fuel economy (more slippery oil, higher gas mileage on the engines, or so goes the notion).

Anyway, just remember that the "three in one" thing is, for the most part, a response to Harley Davidson's Syn3 oil. It is definitely not the best lube for all three locations...

Dan
 
Well I'm sure that the red cap will work Tanker but my freind got caught in traffic in Gatlinburg Tn. the other day for 30 mins. and he said his got pretty hot,enough that his leg's were uncomfortable. So while the Redcap will work I'm going to stick with that little bit of extra protection that the V-twin will provide for the 4 buck's more,now that's just my opinion on how to protect a 18,500 scootaloot bike.
 
Fuel Tanker man,

Thanks for the info since my Dad is the owner of a 97 Honda Shadow with a wet clutch.

IT currently has the M1 15w50 redcap in it. Seems to run fine but the manual says it cannot have any friction modifiers in it.

So does this mean we need to drain it and put in M1 V-twin 20w50?
 
I would run the 15w/50 without loosing any sleep over it. I run it in my '97 Nighthawk and I'm coming up to 51,000 miles with zero problems.


quote:

Originally posted by Airborne Ranger:
Fuel Tanker man,

Thanks for the info since my Dad is the owner of a 97 Honda Shadow with a wet clutch.

IT currently has the M1 15w50 redcap in it. Seems to run fine but the manual says it cannot have any friction modifiers in it.

So does this mean we need to drain it and put in M1 V-twin 20w50?


 
I think the Mobil techs have been counseled to overstate the FM (friction modifier) content of the 15w50 redcap stuff. Probably because they don't want too many folks find out there is precious little difference between the 8 buck a quart VTwin and the 4 buck a bottle redcap.

The seal on the back of the 15W50 jug doesn't have the "energy conserving" phrase in the bottom half.

For what it's worth, you can also call zinc and phosphorous "friction modifiers"--this according to the Mobil 1 tech I spoke to. It is possible that they're spoofing us a bit with the notion that the redcap has friction modifiers in it; at least of the type which would be a problem for a wet clutch.

Check out the Suzuki Hayabusa forum. http://www.hayabusa.org/cgi-bin/busa/ikonboard.cgi

These guys are using the Redcap in their TURBO CHARGED Hayabusas and having no clutch slippage whatsoever.

I've yet to hear of a case where the Mobil 1 Redcap 15W50 has caused a clutch to slip--in any motorcycle.

Dan
 
Tnford,

I won't argue with that. You certainly won't harm your engine with the extra protection, and if it doesn't hurt your wallet I say go for it.

Both the redcap and the VTwin oil will remain functional well over 400 degrees F. If the Harley's motor ever heats up beyond that point you're certainly in more trouble than any motor oil can get you out of.
smile.gif


Dan
 
quote:

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:

I've yet to hear of a case where the Mobil 1 Redcap 15W50 has caused a clutch to slip--in any motorcycle.

Dan


Then you haven't taken a good look at the old Suzuki Bandit forums.

If a clutch is marginal in strength and of the right (or should I say wrong) materials, Redcap will make it slip.


Experiance in the early Bandit days was that Redcap induced clutch slip after a couple of thousand miles on redcap, even with clutches with the common Barnett beef-up of replacing 1 stock diaphram spring with a Barnett diaphram spring.

I believe the problem was in the friction disk composition, because the slippage usually didn't show up until a couple of thousand miles on redcap.

The Bandit clutch wasn't particularly weak either. The bikes were 100 rear wheel hp stock and I knew of several running about 150 rwhp with stock clutches escept for one Barnett diaphram.

There was something about the friction material that didn't get along with many synthetics.
 
Was this only on the older Bandits? I'll have to ask a friend of mine who has a 2003 Bandit 1200 that uses 15w/50. I think he has over 12,000 miles on it now.
 
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