A Harley oil quandry (a little long)

[Terry]

veepster, I just finished intepreting a American Motorcycle Institute test of Auto-Rx/Cycle-RX on a HD machine using the "360" 20w-50. That oil ended up becoming a variable instead of a control in the testing because it was so different every time we tested it.

VR1 will work great but DO the analysis and get it 'read' by someone who knows what they are seeing.

If I had a HD engine if that type I would lean towards Redline 10w-40,Schaeffers 7000 Blend 15w-40 ,Amsoil 10w-40 MC oil, type chemistries.

I would use cycle-rx periodically and probably treat both the oil and fuel with LC and FP.


Terry

 

[penzdude]

terry, i see that the heaviest oil you would use in a harley would be a 15-40, or a synth 10-40. do you think these are think these are sufficent for summer use or extensive idling, stop and go traffic? i was thinking myself about a 10-40 synth for winter use. i am currently running mobil red cap 15-50. i am under the opinion that it should have just as good or better flow properties and better high temp protection than a dino 15-40 mixed fleet, hdeo. you the man! can you give me your take on this? i think most harley owners are leary or going to anything thinner than a 20w50 in any scenario. heck, alot are still afraid to use anything other than a oil that has "genuine harley davidson" written on the bottle, lol.

 

[Terry]

Penz, the key is not what the oil brand tells us the vis is but how it holds up in actual ops.

A stable oil both vis and chemically is desirable and Redline, Amsoil and Schaeffers are extremely stable.

Especially Redline, of my HD analysis customers once I can get them to try Redline they never go back to any other brand.

Consider this if you use HD 20w-50 or similar oils more than likely very quickly you will shear one grade anyway. I suspect that it shears even worse under pressure at the critical components.

Redline shows NO shear at the bearings and ring packs.

I think you are on the right track, just use UOA's to verify your theories or mine ! Its your bike.

According to Mickey_M's comments about the chemistry of Mobil Motorcycle oils The M1 V twin syn 20w-50 motorcycle oil would be preferable to the "red cap" 15w-50 in a HD engine in my estimation.


Unless you are racing and running alcohol in that H-D, 50 weight, IMHO is overkill.

I am not sure that the screaming eagle syn3 is that bad but I do not have any UOA's on it yet. If the lube engineer for H-D can be trusted to tell the truth it is a blend of PAO,POE and is not a 'blend" but a full syn by most definitions.

It is also $8 a qt but I would love to see some data on it.

Terry

[ September 07, 2004, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[penzdude]

thanks terry, maybe i'll look into the redline 10-40, as the local advance auto has started to carry the line. maybe the amsoil 10-40 too. i beleieve it to be a couple of bucks less expensive. now, on to the tranny........

 

[Terry]

For best bang for the buck in the tranny or primary I recommend Schaeffers.

Bob that this site is named after ran nothing but Schaeffers in his HD bike.

 

[fuel tanker man]

I think Harley's reason for recommending a thicker oil is that those engines tend to oil rather poorly when they get hot. Harley does say that a 15W40 diesel oil is acceptable in a pinch, but they further say to dump it and put in 20W50 at the next opportunity.

I don't think Harley's 360 dino 20W50 is all that great, but get this: Two different Evolution engines have been documented to have gone beyond 400,000 miles without an overhaul using this plain old HD 360 dino oil. One of those engines was Dave Willet's, of High Point, NC. I spoke to one of the mechanics who tore that motor down at 240,000 miles "just out of curiosity." They did at that time put two cams in it, but did not touch the rings nor anything else. Had it cams not been replaced it is hard to say whether the engine would have reached the 400K point, but even at 240K miles that's phenominal. The drain interval with the HD 360 was every 2500 miles.

So what I'm basically saying is that with a decent oil (and I do think HD 360 is a decent oil, but not a great one) we can go many, many miles with a well designed engine. All one must do is change the oil and filter regularly.

I use Mobil 1 15W50 in my '94 Low Rider and I'm certain I'm better protected than I would be with the HD 360. Perhaps Redline would be even better, but...

I believe once we reach a certain level of oil quality we're really just splitting hairs over which will yield the best wear numbers.

Dan

 

[Terry]

Dan, This site is all about knowing.

That mileage you describe above is incredible based on how I've seen 360 oil quality in the www.cycle-rx.com testing. Guy must of changed the oil every 500 miles.

You stated; "I believe once we reach a certain level of oil quality we're really just splitting hairs over which will yield the best wear numbers."

You won't know for sure unless you periodically analyze it. Probably could have saved the cams with a better lube too.

TD

 

[LVHospiceRN]

quote:

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Originally posted by veepster:

quote:

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Originally posted by penzdude:

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Hi penzdude,somewhere I read that as a "term of endearment" for twin-cam in reference to the new (since 2000) big twins. I'm not so sure I like it either. We've got panheads, knucleheads, shovelheads, and evos... so what's the nickname for the twin-cams gonna be?

[/QB]

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i like the term "blockhead" instead of evo....just MHO...

 

[penzdude]

hey lv, i'm sorry but blockhead is already taken. i have patented the name as a nickname for my two children, ages 4 and 9 and will sue HD if they so much as dare....

 

[Turbota]

I am going to have a look at this oil. Supposidly avail at AutoZone, etc

I would think that the 20w-50 would be ideal in my Sportster and I would think the price would be cheaper than the old Mobil 1 red cap since it's not a synthetic.

Here is the web site:

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=76

 

[KellyL]

I dont think that motorcycle specific oil is so important in a HD motor. I've been running Delvac 15W40 for about 10K miles, and recently switched to Rotella T because they didnt have Delvac at WalMart. I'm running the Motorcraft FL-2005 filter.

 

[pococj]

I figgered they got the Twinkie moniker 'cause of the "if HD sez so, it gots to be true" crowd that buys 'em.

FWIW, there ain't enough difference between the Mobil 1 V-twin and the new 15w-50 gold cap to justify the cost if you're changing oils at 3k miles or so.