Are heavier oils better for protection??? I have a liquid cooled Honda CBR 954cc sportbike and am wondering if it's beneficial to run a 20w50 (better protection)? Then I start to think about the tolerances. Maybe a heavier oil isn't so good to use, and maybe it's robbing me of some performance. My manual lists acceptable grades as 10w40, 15w40, and 20w50. I think they had a 20w40 in there too??? I will probably just try Amsoil 10w40 next. Have I been brainwashed into thinking heavier oils are better?? Also, what causes fuel dilution? Short trips? Sloppy piston ring to cylinder tolerances?
I'm still curious about heavy wt. oils in sportbikes.
- Thread starter deskjockey
- Start date
- Status
I would think that your biggest concern would be with the "w" number, especially if you ride in the winter. A 20w isn't going to flow real well in the cooler temps until it gets warmed up, causing a bit more wear. If mfgr specs include a 50 weight on the upper end then tolerances shouldn't be a factor. I would be willing to bet that you wouldn't be short any noticable power using a 50 weight in a 954. The better-protection-with-a-heavier-oil thing hasn't really been resolved to the best of my reading here. A higher grade is probably spec'ed because of the tendancy of bikes, esp. with shared engine/tranny sumps, to shear oil down quickly. There has to be some protection remaining at the end of the OCI. As it relates to possible oils to use, don't forget about Delvac 1 5w40, Rotella Syn 5w40 and Syntec 5w50 for cooler climates, or even M1 15w50. The Delvac and Rotella are mid range 40's while the Syntec and M1 are very low range 50's. All should be good for your application, unless the moly in Syntec or M1 causes your clutch problems which, based on discussions in previous threads, it will not.
[ December 10, 2003, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
[ December 10, 2003, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
I have a black '00 929.
These are well made engines, I used to run Motul 5100 10w40. I now run '5100 10W50 not because of any added protection just better shifting. I did notice a power loss though.
I think 20W50 would only be necessary in hot hot climates.
These are well made engines, I used to run Motul 5100 10w40. I now run '5100 10W50 not because of any added protection just better shifting. I did notice a power loss though.
I think 20W50 would only be necessary in hot hot climates.
One purpose of a heavy oil is to prevent thinning out at extreme high temperatures. You have a water cooled bike, so despite its high compression and RPM, it's unlikely to get hot enough to need a 50w oil.
The other purpose of a heavy oil is because your transmission and valve train are chewing up the VIs in the oil, you want to start out heavier because it's going to shear down. This is a real factor on any bike whether air or water cooled.
Based on UOA data here and on my own personal UOAs, Amsoil 10w40 and Mobil 1 15w50 both seem to do well in motorcycles. Of the two, Mobil 1 is a little cheaper and easier to get.
I have used M1 15w50, but switched at my previous oil change because I heard Mobil was reformulating it with less Potassium and Zinc??? Is this a pharce? Maybe I should go back to M1 15w50.
Mobil 1 lowering their ZDDP seems to be a myth based on the fact that it is API "SL" rated. The API "SL" limits to ZDDP don't apply to heavy oils like 15w50.
My latest UOA on my VF750:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000782#000000
Showed over 2400 PPM of Z+P. This is way above the "SL" limits.
This bike is driven hard with aftermarket mods and revved higher than the factory stock redline. But Mobil 1 is doing well in this engine.
Interesting to note that I had very low Si even with my K&N air filter...
Hey, the Motul smells better!!!
I've always used M1 15w50 with no problems. I was at a truck stop and saw Delvac 1 for $25 a gallon so I bought some to use next time. After I bought it, I wondered why. The M1 seems ok so far
Although the heavyweight oils were excluded from the zinc linits in the SL spec, Mobil and some other oil makers have voluntarily lowered the amount of zinc used. Mobil 1 15W50 probably has more than enough zinc to provide good protection in a bike. The biggest concern is whether some of the newer additives used in Mobil 1 15W50 might cause problems with wet clutches. Because the additive package is different, experience with older grades (SH, SJ, etc) of Mobil 15W50 may be applicable to the SL version.Mobil says that even the 15W50 now contains friction modifiers that might cause problems with wet clutches(yes, that could just be a marketing effort to boost sales of their motorcycle oil).
Feel at ease using heavy duty diesel oils in your bike. I have a Honda 929 sportbike and i Run Mobile Delvac 1300 15/40 with no ill effects. The debate over M/C specific oils is one that will never have a conclusion.
Isn't the oil supposed to be labeled "energy conserving" it it has FM additives? Mobil 1 15w50 "red cap" is not labeled energy conserving (at least not the batch I bought a few months ago).
Has anyone seen a degradation in UOA results with the latest formulation?
For use in bikes, look for the Allison C4 rating. It's a transmission rating that specifies wet clutch performance among other things. Most diesel 15W-40s I have seen have it. As long as it has a C4 rating you can be pretty sure it won't have a bunch of slipperyness additives in it.
To be labeled energy conserving, an oil must pass a series of tests that show it produces better gas mileage than the reference. In order to pass the tests, an oil almost certainly needs friction modifiers. However, having friction modifiers does not automatically make an oil 'energy conserving" although you can be almost sure that an 'energy conserving' oil has them. One thing for sure is that the SL version of Mobil 1 car oil has moly. The SJ and earlier version did not have moly. Rightly or wrongly, moly has been blamed for causing clutch slippage. My guess is that Mobil 1 15W50 is probably still suitable for bikes with wet clutches but Mobil doesn't want to be bothered with taking bikes into account when formulating it. They now make an oil formulated for bikes with wet clutches so that's what they recommend. After their bike oil came out and before the car oil was reformulated to SL, they did say that their 15W50 met all the requirements for use in bikes.
As they say, YMMV. There are riders who claim to have used 'energy conserving' 10W30 car oils in their bikes for thousands of miles with problems.
YMMV is true. I was on a Suzuki Bandit mail list. Clutch slippage was common on the old M1 15W-50 car oil (including my bike). It was almost universal on bikes that had the power increased 15% through a set of common modifications. I don't remember any slippage problems being reported when using 15W-40 dino oil, usually Mobil Delvac Super 1300.
OTOH, clutch slippage problems on the Yamaha XS650 mail list I was on were almost always traceable to a clutch maintenance problem, regardless of the oil used.
I stick with the recommended weights. Considering the variety of parts a bike oil has to protect and the incredible tolerances of a bike motor, it pays to go with what they figured is best.
Hard to find the recommended 20W40 for my FZX700 though..., so I use 15W40.
Hard to find the recommended 20W40 for my FZX700 though..., so I use 15W40.
Actually, Mobil 1 has been making "motorcycle" oil since before the supersyn or SL formulations, and they've always seemed to hedge on the question why one would need to use these oils. Based on how well the "red cap" has been doing in my bikes, their MX4-T seems like pure marketing to me.
But Mobil 1 isn't unique in that. Several other companies make "motorcycle" oils that aren't significantly different from regular old car oil, but cost twice as much and have a picture of a motorcycle on the label.
Since most bikes recommend 40 or 50 weight oils, and the "SL" limits don't apply to these oils, one quick trip to your local auto parts store finds plenty of non-energy conserving oils with beefy additive packages suitable for motorcycles.
Before Mobil came out with motorcycle specific oils their engineers heartily appoved of Delvac 15W-40 for motorcycles if asked.
As soon as Mobil started producing motorcycle $pecific oil, then their Delvac 15W-40 oils magically became bad for motorcycles if you asked the same people on the record.
Other commercial transmission/wet brake/clutch fluids are the mono-grade conventional, and synthetic multi-grade Caterpillar TO-4s.
These oils can be used as an engine oil/wet clutch/trans combo, as they also meet the (semi-obsolete) API CD engine oil classification.
[ December 28, 2003, 05:49 AM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
These oils can be used as an engine oil/wet clutch/trans combo, as they also meet the (semi-obsolete) API CD engine oil classification.
[ December 28, 2003, 05:49 AM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
I know what you mean. My father has used m 1 15w50 in his goldwing for the last 30,ooo + miles and now the dealer tells him that since they have bike oil out he isnt supposed to use it. Of course its twice as much
- Status
Similar threads
