Zinc and Phos
- Thread starter JonS
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See http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000054#000000
Not if a 40 weight will work in your application.
Right, and when you do a UOA, you will likely get most of your zink and phos back, indicating that your motorcycle needs very little of those additives.
Higher levels of ZDDP provide longer protection, not better protection.
Delo and other HDMOs are extended service engine oils, that is why the high additive levels.
Higher levels of ZDDP provide longer protection, not better protection.
Delo and other HDMOs are extended service engine oils, that is why the high additive levels.
Huh? You don't think higher levels of zinc and phosphorus provide better protection?
For being extended service capable, I believe it has more to do with the TBN levels in the oil, not the ZDDP levels.
The high power levels in diesel/motorcycle engines means rod and main bearings are subjected to loads that are not normally found in regular engines.
The valve train is also highly loaded, and requires better extreme-pressure and boundary lubrication properties.
Oil additives containing phosphorus and zinc protect these highly loaded extreme-pressure areas. Because diesel/motorcycle engines have higher loading of components (in general), more phosphorus and zinc are present compared to "regular oils".
Not trying to start an argument, just giving a different opinion.
[ October 15, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
I'm with Jelly. If the hydrodynamic lubrication breaks down, the barrier agents (zinc, phosp) come into play. Hydrodynamic lubrication breakdown can happen for a variety of reasons, not all which are associated with usage time. Motorcycles are notorius for hydrodynamic lubrication breakdown (don't they call it shearing?). So why not have an abundant supply of barrier lubrication, even if it may not be fully utilized every interval?
Jelly
Don't worry, I'm pretty much imposible to insult.
Chesire grin
I thought that high TBN values were present to handle acids formed from the burning of high sulphur fuels.
Much like the acid rain from power plants not using Canadian coal.
EDIT: Doyall, yes better to have a high engine oil additive level and not needing it, than not having a high additive level and needing it.
[ October 15, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
Don't worry, I'm pretty much imposible to insult.
Chesire grin
I thought that high TBN values were present to handle acids formed from the burning of high sulphur fuels.
Much like the acid rain from power plants not using Canadian coal.
EDIT: Doyall, yes better to have a high engine oil additive level and not needing it, than not having a high additive level and needing it.
[ October 15, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
The exorbitant cost.
Does ZDDP actually get used up, or is it simply scraped from the metallic surface at the moment of contact?
Now THAT is funny
Even if MC oils DID have higher ZDDP levels (and some do), this doesn't make them any different from any other 10w40 or 20w50 API SL "car" oil because the API SL limits on ZDDP don't apply to these heavier oils.
For example, Mobil 1 supersyn 15w50 "red cap" is API SL yet has ZDDP levels that are higher than the API SL limits allow, because those limits don't apply to 15w50 oils.
The bottom line: don't waste your money on MC specific oils.
[ October 17, 2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: MRC01 ]
I've currently got (gosh I hate to say it) Castrol GTX 20w50 and Auto-Rx in my '99 Harley TC-88 to clean it out after a cam bearing disentigration and crankcase ventilation breach were repaired. Only going to leave it in 1,000 miles (150 to go). For the rinse I am going to use (gosh I hate to say it) Castrol GTX High Mileage 20w50. Will run the HM 1,500 miles, unless I get too scared, and then do a UOA to make sure it's cleaned out good and get baseline wear numbers before putting in (gosh I hate to say it) Castrol Syntec 20w50. Will also get to see how bad it (HM) shears-down. When I put in the (gosh I hate to say it) Syntec, I will also put M1 V-Twin 20w50 in my girlfriend's bike and do UOA's on them both at 3k. We ride together and she fairly well keeps up so we'll see how the comparison goes. After that I'm confident it will be M1 15w50 "red cap" in them both, unless the (gosh I hate to say it) Syntec performs well.
[ October 17, 2003, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
I like the T-shirt that read "If you can read this, the Bit** fell off"
I use Castrol 20w-50 Motorcycle oil in my bike, with 2k changes. I have an analysis sample ready to go into the mail. The oil is SH rated, so lets not kill Castrol until this UOA comes back and see what it looks like.
MolaKule
Staff member
Let's not forget the Secondary AW adds such as the Borons and the Calcium Carbonates.
Delvac 1 has approx. 160 ppm of Boron.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000055#000000
[ November 19, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Delvac 1 has approx. 160 ppm of Boron.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000055#000000
[ November 19, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
How about buffered sulphur adds as in GL-3s??
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