Has anyone here used Mobil 1 75W-90 in a Sportster transmission? I have heard it was a good replacement but I would like to benefit from someone's firsthand experience if possible.
Thanks
Thanks
Sport-Trans Fluid vs. Mobil 1 75W-90
- Thread starter garyb80
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First off
Secondly, you are going to have a hard time finding a lot of people to discuss motorcycle lubrication issues here. Hint - try to find some way to shoehorn your question into another forum and use the word motorcycle (esp. Harley) sparingly. For instance you could have put this question in the gear lube section. And since you want to talk about Mobil 1 (this bunch is wild about syns) you may could find a few takers there. I'm not trying to slam anyone so everybody, please don't misinterpret this comment. There are so many knowledgable and helpful people here that it will make your head spin. It just seems as though they aren't comfortable when the subject is bikes, probably because they have never fooled with them. Like the saying goes; if I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.
That being said, I'll take a stab at the question since I sort of asked the same question in this thread
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=11
I searched the ExxonMobil Material Safety Data Sheet site and could not find a Mobil 1 75w90 gear lube. The only Mobil 1 (syn) branded gear lube I could find was a 75w140. With a viscosity of 26 cST @ 100C, it might be a bit thick for that application at operating temperatures. MoleKule made some suggestions for substitutes in the thread and from my research I am leaning toward some Redline, if I can find it. But as the Sprot-Trans fluid is a very, very low 90 weight lube, I would be careful not to chose a very high 90 weight replacement unless you have a severe service application. If you haven't already done so, folks on the V-Twin forum www.harleydavidsonforum.com (I think) sometimes talk about what lubes they use but I can assure you there is nowhere near the level of lubrication expertise there as exists here.
Secondly, you are going to have a hard time finding a lot of people to discuss motorcycle lubrication issues here. Hint - try to find some way to shoehorn your question into another forum and use the word motorcycle (esp. Harley) sparingly. For instance you could have put this question in the gear lube section. And since you want to talk about Mobil 1 (this bunch is wild about syns) you may could find a few takers there. I'm not trying to slam anyone so everybody, please don't misinterpret this comment. There are so many knowledgable and helpful people here that it will make your head spin. It just seems as though they aren't comfortable when the subject is bikes, probably because they have never fooled with them. Like the saying goes; if I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.
That being said, I'll take a stab at the question since I sort of asked the same question in this thread
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=11
I searched the ExxonMobil Material Safety Data Sheet site and could not find a Mobil 1 75w90 gear lube. The only Mobil 1 (syn) branded gear lube I could find was a 75w140. With a viscosity of 26 cST @ 100C, it might be a bit thick for that application at operating temperatures. MoleKule made some suggestions for substitutes in the thread and from my research I am leaning toward some Redline, if I can find it. But as the Sprot-Trans fluid is a very, very low 90 weight lube, I would be careful not to chose a very high 90 weight replacement unless you have a severe service application. If you haven't already done so, folks on the V-Twin forum www.harleydavidsonforum.com (I think) sometimes talk about what lubes they use but I can assure you there is nowhere near the level of lubrication expertise there as exists here.
Wow. Mobil 1 75w90 syn gear oil is sold at just about every auto parts place around here.
Here is the data from Mobil1's web site:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1SyntheticGearLubricant.asp
I didn't know Mobil 1 made a 75w140 !
The Red Line recommendation is 75W-90 (GL-5) Gear Lube for the sporty Trans/Primary. I've used that for years with no problem. I'm sure the Mobil will be fine.
From www.myoilshop.com (site advertiser/sponsor) web site (product promotion so factor that into the equation):
[ September 09, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
If I am not mistaken, the EP additive they speak of is sulphur. If I am mistaken, someone PLEASE correct me. Maybe Redline's GL-5 you speak of uses some EP additive other than sulphur. The M1 contains a sulphur compound per their data sheet, but whether the concentration is significant enough to (or will) do harm, I do not know. Without more data, I personally wouldn't risk it.
[ September 09, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
Thanks MRC01 ... I just didn't look in the right place.
The M1 75w90 has a visc of 15.2 cST @ 100C so it is in the neighborhood of being a "correct" weight. The only thing I would worry about is whether the sulphur-phosphorous additive would cause some soft metal degradation. I have heard this stated by some as being a problem with the GL-5 stuff which is basically for hypoid gears (differentials), not syncro-mesh transmissions. Bob uses Schaffer's 239S in his Sportster. See this thread http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000030 It is GL-1, GL-2 and GL-3 rated but if you are like me, you don't need a 37 lb pail of it. The Redline I'm trying to find is a GL-4, specifically for syncro-mesh transmissions I believe. Maybe someone will venture some other opinions.
[ September 09, 2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
The M1 75w90 has a visc of 15.2 cST @ 100C so it is in the neighborhood of being a "correct" weight. The only thing I would worry about is whether the sulphur-phosphorous additive would cause some soft metal degradation. I have heard this stated by some as being a problem with the GL-5 stuff which is basically for hypoid gears (differentials), not syncro-mesh transmissions. Bob uses Schaffer's 239S in his Sportster. See this thread http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000030 It is GL-1, GL-2 and GL-3 rated but if you are like me, you don't need a 37 lb pail of it. The Redline I'm trying to find is a GL-4, specifically for syncro-mesh transmissions I believe. Maybe someone will venture some other opinions.
[ September 09, 2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
It does say on the info sheet that there is a sulphur-phosphorous additive system but futher down it says it has "Excellent rust, staining and corrosion protection of copper and it's alloys".
This transmission has over 36K on it anyway. If it screws up I'll just rebuild the **** thing. I think I'm going to try it and do a UOA after 5K. I will compare it to a UOA of the Sport-Trans Fluid and post. I was hoping some one had already done it and could share their experience (man, that sounded like some one from California)
By the way, thanks for the input guys.
This transmission has over 36K on it anyway. If it screws up I'll just rebuild the **** thing. I think I'm going to try it and do a UOA after 5K. I will compare it to a UOA of the Sport-Trans Fluid and post. I was hoping some one had already done it and could share their experience (man, that sounded like some one from California)
By the way, thanks for the input guys.
Garyb80;
You may not have a transmission to re-build.
Most GL-5 gear oils are not suited for use in transmissions, or in hot enviroments.
Maybe the Redline is different, but at any rate who is going to pay for repairs if it is not compatable?
If you want to experiment, make sure the lubricant you are trying will pass a 1-A copper strip test.
Is there a high offset bevel gear in your transmission that would require the use of an active sul/phos GL-5 lube?
No?
Do you have a wet clutch?
The best transmission lubricants I've used in motorcycles are products like Mobil's Mobiltrans SHC 50, or Exxon SGO 50.
However you are own your OWN when experimenting.
The safe bet would to use the stuff recomended for your bike by the manufacture.
Naw, that would be far too easy.
You may not have a transmission to re-build.
Most GL-5 gear oils are not suited for use in transmissions, or in hot enviroments.
Maybe the Redline is different, but at any rate who is going to pay for repairs if it is not compatable?
If you want to experiment, make sure the lubricant you are trying will pass a 1-A copper strip test.
Is there a high offset bevel gear in your transmission that would require the use of an active sul/phos GL-5 lube?
No?
Do you have a wet clutch?
The best transmission lubricants I've used in motorcycles are products like Mobil's Mobiltrans SHC 50, or Exxon SGO 50.
However you are own your OWN when experimenting.
The safe bet would to use the stuff recomended for your bike by the manufacture.
Naw, that would be far too easy.
I've not seen a 75W-90 in a Sportster transmission. When I got my sportster, I got the original oil for that application and of course it didn't say what wieght it was so I sent it in for analysis and found that they use a 30wt oil in the clutch/gear area. Anyway, that's what I use in mine with no problems. Had to replace the gasket awhile back, took a pic of it while it was apart.
BTW, this oil has the mo/ ph/ zinc additives in it as well. No clutch slippage at all.
This is the product I use..
http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/239S.html
BTW, this oil has the mo/ ph/ zinc additives in it as well. No clutch slippage at all.
This is the product I use..
http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/239S.html
The main reason I was looking for a substitute is I live way out in the boonies and and it is better than a hundred miles to the nearest Harley shop. I was hoping to get something at the local Walmart or auto parts store. The manufacturer recommendations are Harley Sport-Trans Fluid, period, so following the manufacturer recommendations isn't all that easy Userfriendly.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Thanks for everyone's input.
I can't find any commercial or industrial cross over lubricants that are available in anything less than either a drum or 5 gallon pail quantity.
And there are a lot to choose from.
Personally I can't see why a HDMO 15W40, SAE 40, or SAE 50 would not work in the Hog's transmission or chain case.
Most of those HDMOs meet Caterpillar TO-2 and Allison C-4 transmision requirements, and are wet clutch/brake compatable.
The Cat TO-4s normally meet API CD and GL-3.
The new Cat final drive FD-1 50s and 60s are a mystery to me as what the additive package is, but they make a point stating that they are not wet clutch compatable.
I'm going to do some dumpster diving on those lubricants some day and find out what the additive package is.
Anything other than engine oils and your into pails and drums.
Some GL-5 gear lubes are not corrosive to yellow metals, and may be suitable for motorcycles.
The additives in the GL-5s may not be compatable with the clutch.
I would not go out on a limb and recommend an automotive gear lube unless it was specified in the owner's manual.
Going with the manufactures recommended lubricant would be too easy for me, as it always is.
I like to monkey around, its my primate instinct.
[ September 11, 2003, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
And there are a lot to choose from.
Personally I can't see why a HDMO 15W40, SAE 40, or SAE 50 would not work in the Hog's transmission or chain case.
Most of those HDMOs meet Caterpillar TO-2 and Allison C-4 transmision requirements, and are wet clutch/brake compatable.
The Cat TO-4s normally meet API CD and GL-3.
The new Cat final drive FD-1 50s and 60s are a mystery to me as what the additive package is, but they make a point stating that they are not wet clutch compatable.
I'm going to do some dumpster diving on those lubricants some day and find out what the additive package is.
Anything other than engine oils and your into pails and drums.
Some GL-5 gear lubes are not corrosive to yellow metals, and may be suitable for motorcycles.
The additives in the GL-5s may not be compatable with the clutch.
I would not go out on a limb and recommend an automotive gear lube unless it was specified in the owner's manual.
Going with the manufactures recommended lubricant would be too easy for me, as it always is.
I like to monkey around, its my primate instinct.
[ September 11, 2003, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
garyb80, if all else fails maybe you can find some M1 V-Twin 20w-50 at Wally's or your local auto parts store. Since the MoCo came out with SYN-3 and said it could be used in chaincase/clutch, trannys and engines, Mobil has said the V-Twin 20w-50 could as well. It's $8/qt but that's better than driving 100 miles to get the Harley stuff. If you can't find the V-Twin then the 'red cap' M1 15w-50 has been bantied about as an acceptable substitute. That thread shouldn't be too far down if you are interested. The 'red cap' should be available anywhere M1 is sold. Perhaps the only limitation for your application is the Moly in M1, but Bob says it's not a problem in his. If it becomes a problem, change it out and it should go away.
soluble moly will not affect clutches in any way.
Another thing is that tim can order a gal of the 239s 30wt and have it sent directly to your doorstep. Eliminating driving anywhere.
Another thing is that tim can order a gal of the 239s 30wt and have it sent directly to your doorstep. Eliminating driving anywhere.
Great article Doyall.
Thanks
Thanks
There are several types of moly. soluble moly WILL NOT AFFECT THE HARLEY CLUTCHES. Why?
First it takes approx 400degs of heat to "activate" the soluble moly first. Second, Moly is only "attracted to metal surfaces, not fiber material". OK, you got me, if you are running metal to metal clutches, then yes, it wont work.
( guess, I am behind on the new clutches (sarcasim)huh.)
Anyway, The solid moly WILL AFFECT CLUTCHES. YES THEY ARE RIGHT. Solid moly particles can and will get between the surfaces and cause slippage. This is also true with PTFE or Tephlon. The only problem with that picture is that you don't normally see solid moly used in oils. Mostly only in greases. Soluble is an additive and not a solid and that has to have heat activation and only attracts to metal surfaces.
I suspect that a great many of us better get the moly oil out if what they say is true. I wonder how many redline users there are in the MC world already using moly in/on their bikes also.
Here's my clutch setup after been running moly for quite awhile.
More on what I use and the moly debate goes on here...
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000030
This topic always stems from the same people who say that synths are bad in a motorcyle.(mainly harely dealers.) Oh yeah, synth's too slippery, causes the needle bearings to flat spot because they slide instead of roll. give me a break. it's because they are usng an oil with the lower amount of barrier additives needed when the bearings shear the hydrodynamic film, nothing to do with slipperier oil. When the film breaks, and it does, the bearings will "scuff" and cause flat spot wear. If oil was too slippery, then there would be a film between the two surfaces and no wear would exist.
[ October 02, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
First it takes approx 400degs of heat to "activate" the soluble moly first. Second, Moly is only "attracted to metal surfaces, not fiber material". OK, you got me, if you are running metal to metal clutches, then yes, it wont work.
Anyway, The solid moly WILL AFFECT CLUTCHES. YES THEY ARE RIGHT. Solid moly particles can and will get between the surfaces and cause slippage. This is also true with PTFE or Tephlon. The only problem with that picture is that you don't normally see solid moly used in oils. Mostly only in greases. Soluble is an additive and not a solid and that has to have heat activation and only attracts to metal surfaces.
I suspect that a great many of us better get the moly oil out if what they say is true. I wonder how many redline users there are in the MC world already using moly in/on their bikes also.
Here's my clutch setup after been running moly for quite awhile.
More on what I use and the moly debate goes on here...
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000030
This topic always stems from the same people who say that synths are bad in a motorcyle.(mainly harely dealers.) Oh yeah, synth's too slippery, causes the needle bearings to flat spot because they slide instead of roll. give me a break. it's because they are usng an oil with the lower amount of barrier additives needed when the bearings shear the hydrodynamic film, nothing to do with slipperier oil. When the film breaks, and it does, the bearings will "scuff" and cause flat spot wear. If oil was too slippery, then there would be a film between the two surfaces and no wear would exist.
[ October 02, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
Well said Bob. Harley now endorses synthetics, so that arguement is dead.
yeah, aint that something...
Hey Bob,
I read somewhere your lookin' for a new huntin' dog.
Maybe Labman will sell you a pup.
ha ha
I read somewhere your lookin' for a new huntin' dog.
Maybe Labman will sell you a pup.
ha ha
The article posted here
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000224
discusses this topic. The Mobil folks say use the 75w90 in Harley transmissions and that moly will affect clutches. Still leary of GL-5 in the tranny. I'm still looking for the GL-4 synthetic Pennzoil or the Red Line MT90 or maybe the Red Line Shockproof Heavy.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000224
discusses this topic. The Mobil folks say use the 75w90 in Harley transmissions and that moly will affect clutches. Still leary of GL-5 in the tranny. I'm still looking for the GL-4 synthetic Pennzoil or the Red Line MT90 or maybe the Red Line Shockproof Heavy.
Didn't mean to rile you Bob, just reporting what was in the article.
It is interesting though, that in the article a VOA on Harley's primary lube (primary chain and clutch bath) was given and it contains 89 ppm in MOLY. If the VOA is accurate, obviously the MoCo doesn't think moly will hurt clutches either. The VOA I posted on HD Primary Chaincase Lube a while ago was done by ANA Labs and they apparently don't test for moly.
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