What is the favorite 2 cycle motorcycle oil

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"On a motorcycle forum there is a guy that says Mobil MX2T is 25% Kerosene and that Kerosene reduces octane."
Non sense. MX2T des conatin some stoddard solvent as a diluent, but not 25%. Almost all two cycle oils contain some stoddard solvent. TCW3 oils contain a ton of it.
 
"Just curious if anybody else is using this and what they think. Thanks"
It burns dirty as **** and is almost worthless for anyhting remotly recreational, but it will prevent seizure in the most extreme racing conditions.
 
Not totally useless
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I mix up only what I need as I go but always seem to have a few pounds left over after the race weekend. Not being one to waste good (and expensive) fuel, I run it in my chainsaw which is a Stihl 036 Pro series with 24" bar. With 112 Octane oxygenated fuel and Castrol A747 that thing ROCKS!
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Seriously though, it is race application specific. When you push a 125 to 44hp and beyond things get strange. The reason I use it at the track is because nobody there can tell me they have ever siezed on it. Many people (who have siezed a lot) run it for that reason. It's **** expensive and I was wondering if anybody had founs an off track use for it.
 
I just ripped apart my top end last week.(03kx250) I put 40 hrs with the mx2t 36:1 av gas 100LL. The powervalves were very easy to strip and did not take much to clean up. The piston had usual led deposits on it from the av gas. The head was spotless, the crank halves had some rust starting to form. I know what the crank looked like before the 40 hrs and it did not look like that.My bike sits for no more than 5 day's if that. The crank was also dry compared to maxima 927 at 36:1 AND AMSOIL 50:1. I was bearly picking up anything when rotating, definetly did not compare to the 927 and amsoil.I did see oil laying in between the cases,but not enough oil pick up on the halves for my taste. I lost .001 rod side clearance .019 before.020 after.The 927 and amsoil never lost me that much clearance in such short of time .020 is still well within spec,but I feel more confident with the 927 and amsoil mx2t is not for me. The 927 would be my oil of choice for lubrication,but the powervalves can be a handful when stripping,the 927 lubricates and lubricates well. The kx cylinder design has a huge intake port and a bridge that the ring gap rides between. I get a few vertical scratches(normal) on the intake side of the piston with other oils because of the design,the 927 just about eliminates the scratches or scuffing . Of course their is a down side the hard charcoal carbon on the main valve. I was looking on KLOTZ website I like the way they give some of the properties for each of their oil and they have a numbering scale (lubricity,clean,smoke,antirust)for each of thier oils. They put it right out there I kinda of respect that.The klotz r 50 really caught my eye flashpoint is 400 very comparable to 927 and their benol and super techniplate. It also looks like it burns very clean,and is a excellent antirust.I am going to try it out, my first objective with a 2 stroke oil is lubrication then cleanliness. I do not gauge a oil on how clean my power valves are or how clean it is,but if I can get great lubricity with the r 50 and not struggle with the power valves it will be a winner.Their super tehniplate looks like a winner to except for oxidation. A side note I just did a motor rebuild on a 01 cr 125 original top end was still in it (ARGHHHHHHHHH) the bike was used for hare scrambles b rider ring end gap and piston were well out of spec,but the cylinder was below the service limit. Of course their was blow-by and the rings and piston were shot,but it looked very good in their I was very susprised.He has been running belray H1r since day one. Klotz R 50 looks like it will fit my application.

Keith.
00,03 KX250.
by all means, post your links in our links section located off the main page. Thanks.

[ September 25, 2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
KX, 927 is a good oil and I have used it with good results. However I have no corrosion issues with the Mobil MX2t. Redline Racing oil promoted corrosion.

In addition, I am not convinced that there is a large difference in ring wear or overall engine life between quality oils. My experience has shown that for my riding conditions, which are not race conditions, MX2t works best for me.

Chris
 
Chris I agree mobil mx2t is not a bad oil,but for my application it is not for me,I did however find corrosion starting to form nothing alarming,but it was present.Red line causing corrosion! is not the first time I heard that either. The 15/50 or the mx4t in the tranny showed excellent results and performance. I am a big believer in those 2 oils for the tranny.I am trying the delvac 1300s right now Just trying to save a little money,I drop my oil 2 rides anyway.I am going with the klotz r50 for premix. If that does not work out it will be amsoil.
SEE YA!!!

Keith,
00,03KX250

[ September 23, 2003, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: KX 455 ]
 
KX, i dont think mx2t was responsible for your corrosion problems. I stored a older rm250 last winter by propping it up in the corner of my garage. When I re ringed this spring there was no rust on the crank lobes or the cast iron sleeved cylinder. I know you are high on 927, but have you considered the issues with castor and corrosion? FWIW the scoring you are seeing on the intake side of the piston can be caused by dirt and a poor port chamfer. I had a 00 cr 250 which has a huge intake port as well and I never had a problem with scoring using mx2t. BTW youR comments on cleanliness are off a bit as cleanliness has a great influence on ring life. Carbon in the ring grooves will cause the ring to wear more rapidly.
 
Blano Mobil mx2t did cause slight corrosion,the motor was apart with the 927 without that issue.Like I said mx2t is not for me .. As for port chamfer and or dirt entering that is not the case. My AIRBOOT TO FILTER CAGE IS SEALED LIKE FORT KNOX. As for port chamfer they all have a nice chamfer with a rubber cratex . 927 is a excellent anti corrosion oil. 927 is not all castor ,but also synthetic with a additive package for corrosion. Now blendzall I definetly would not recommend that for storage.Mx2t is not a bad oil as I said,but for hard riding or racing their is better.

Userfriendly I see you you do not consider av gas for a great alternative for race gas. For 2.35 a gallon you have a octane rating of 102.5 good detonation control for applied compression ratio. Excellent jetting characteristics(very defined when a jetting change is made,easy to jet)av gas is Highly regulated, is very consistent and it will stay a year. Considering that pump fuel is basically junk and so inconsistent. average race fuel for my application is 6.00 a gallon and i have seen bad batches of race fuel. Maybe you need to rethink your comment.

Keith,
00,03KX250

[ September 23, 2003, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: KX 455 ]
 
We have very good pump gasoline available in Canada from several refiners.
Are fuels not blended for their intended applications in the USA?
Such as an AV gasoline blended with a 2200 RPM,
5 inch bore, four stroke, air cooled engine in mind?
 
Kx455, you have no evidance to support your claims other than "it didnt happen with 927. Also av gas isnt 102 r/m 2 octane and it sucks for mx bike applications because it has a high low end boiling point. This provides for lazy throttle response.
 
quote:

Originally posted by blano:
Kx455, you have no evidance to support your claims other than "it didnt happen with 927. Also av gas isnt 102 r/m 2 octane and it sucks for mx bike applications because it has a high low end boiling point. This provides for lazy throttle response.

......

I am sorry if I offended you blano, because I do not like the results I examined with mx2t.What more results do you want (tear down inspection) I know my motors inside out and if I like or dislike a certain oil I will be honest about it. I have nothing to gain. The crank was pretty dry and corrosion has started compared to the 927 and amsoil. I lost .001 in rod side clearance mixture 36:1. As for avgas you say it is not 102.5, ,but leave that statement open(NO EVIDENCE) well here it is. I have news for you about avgas not being 102.5
RON 105-110.
MON 100-102
I will take the lowest #s 105+100/2 = 102.5

As for lazy throttle reponse and as you say "it sucks" for mx". I see no evidence of that out on the track. avgas has a bad rep and it is just not true. You run what you like,but don't make blanket statement's without any knowledge.

Keith.
00,03KX250
 
KX, Here is your proof. http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/aviationfuel/9_ag_specsandtest.shtm

Notice that avgas is not rated on the r/m 2 scale instead they use a rich lean mixture scale. I believe the r/m 2 value for avgas is around the low mid ninties.
Now go over to www.vpfuels.com amd comapre the distillation curve of VP C-12 or MR-2 with avgas. You will notice that the 10% and 20% boiling points of avgas is much higer than the vp fuels. This provides for lazy response be cause the fuels cannot completley vaporize at lower rpm and temps. you will also notice that the endpoint will be much higher for avgas. this means in many circumstances your engine will not be hot enough or loaded enough to ignite all of the fuel which will decrease power slightly at high rpm. Now as far as mx2t soaking the crank with oil. This is directly related to how much oil is in the gas and has nothing to do with oil type nor is it indicative of better performance.Did you put the bike up after running it dry? castor oils have a well documented affinity for moisture and thus making a lousy storage lube. As for the increased clearance. What did you measure it with and why do you attribute the wear to the oil? Are you sure it wasnt dirt and or load related and how do you know this? Have you looked at the bearing journals with a microscope to look for skateing? bTW I have seen your posts on another board and remember Rich R reaming you out for posting complete BS.

[ September 24, 2003, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: blano ]
 
Perhaps you are both correct.
KX455 indicates that
AV gas makes no difference to performance in a Kawasaki.

[ September 24, 2003, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
 
User, I have tested avgas in many 250 jap bikes(cr's, kx's and rm's) in the past and the results where never as good as a good race fuel like vp c-12 or phillips b-35.
 
I gave you true numbers and who makes Rich right on what is bs!!!!!!! Look it is very simple believe what you may use what you wan't,but don't give me any S**t on what I use just because you do not agree . You ask how did I measure my side clearance if you know anything you should know how it is done. I do not have a conspiracy against mobil mx2t it is just not for hard riding,thats it get over it I would use it for trail riding though. Amsoil at 50:1 left a very nice coating on the halves compared to the mx2t you rave some much about, the mx2t was mixed at 36:1.. Stop being so defensive!!!!!! Oh by the way here is what you wrote about r/m numbers..

Notice that avgas is not rated on the r/m 2 scale instead they use a rich lean mixture scale. I believe the r/m 2 value for avgas is around the low mid ninties.

Blano I already told you the octane rating in my previous post you believe the the r/m is low mid nineties you better guess again. I give true numbers I do not guess. Better look at my numbers again because that is what the rating is!!!!!!! I am finished with this discussion. .

Keith,
00,03,KX250


Keith.
00,03KX250

[ September 24, 2003, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: KX 455 ]
 
For Steve and Blano's info, There is a blended two stroke oil. This oil is ashless, has been used in everything, (i know blano, you don't agree but it has and is still) from the snowmobiles, boats, lawn equipment, aire and water cooled equipment. Anyway, it is blended from the finest high quality severely solvent refined severely hydrofinished 100% paraffin base oils and severely hydrofinished polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base fluids available. Further blended into this blend of 100% paraffin base oils and PAO synthetic base fluids is a concentrated ashless two-cycle additive package that provides the Moly Supreme 2-Cycle Oil with excellent results.

As for deposits, sorry, that it does not leave like you suspect. I've not seen any carbon build up on any units as of yet, unlike some others.

I know this isn't a valid test, but I played around one night with a couple of two stroke oils
and did some burn tests on a couple of these oils. I took a coffee can, cut it open, put some holes in the top where I could set some test tubes in, placed the oil in test tubes, set over an open fire and watched them boil for quite awhile. After I shut them down, let cool, I removed the fluids and here was the results I saw. Again, not a scientific study but interesting enough for me just the same
 -
.
 -
 -
 
Kx, Did you even read the link I posted that discusses the differance between av gas octane rating and standard pump fuel octane ratings or are you still the clueless one that you where over on DRN? The reason I asked about the side clearance issue is because I doubt you did it correctly as most people simply do not know how

BOB, your test proves nothing and you know it. The only eveidence I have seen on schaeffers two cycle oils are the pics you posted of the motorcycle engine. those pics where terrible. Lots of heavy carbon deposist on the piston. BTW I wonder why no one else uses pAO's in their two cycle oils? Deposits issues maybe.
 
Blano you are really putting your foot in your mouth. Here it is ONE More time. These numbers are tested by research and motor method and yes I did read the attachment pages and I understand it is rated different. They do not give or go by ron and mon,but I am telling you this is what it is. Again forget about the lean and rich mixtures,these are the numbers that are tested by the ron and mon method.

RON 105-110.
MON 100-102 DO THE MATH TAKE THE LOWEST NUMBERS AND YOU HAVE NO LESS THAN 102.5.
If YOU MUST KNOW!!!!!!!!
I also measure the rod side clearance with a feeler gauge between the thrust washer and rod both sides. I also measure between the crank and thrust washer which give the same reading. I also place the rod on different angles forward rearward center etc... As J PETERMAN would say .
DISMISSED!!!!!!!! 20:1 you are from CANADA!!!!

Keith,
00,03KX250
 
quote:

Originally posted by blano:

BOB, your test proves nothing and you know it. The only evidence I have seen on schaeffers two cycle oils are the pics you posted of the motorcycle engine. those pics where terrible. Lots of heavy carbon deposits on the piston. BTW I wonder why no one else uses PAOs in their two cycle oils? Deposits issues maybe.


I dis agree. It proves interesting imo. What I have found that has proved nothing is your opinions which is all I've ever seen. You talk about how you've used all these different brands, of course never schaeffers, so your opinions about schaeffers is non founded imo at this time.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong but I'll call it like I see it also. Lets also point out, that you were right, you couldn't tell nothing based on those pictures as the quality of those pics were extremely poor. There was no heavy carbon deposits on any part of that engine. The carbon that was on there was soft and would wipe off with my fingers. So, your thoughts based on some poor quality pics is understandable.

Most syn two cycle oils are ester based. I cant recall if I have ever seen a pao two stroke oil. Esters will take more heat,contribute to less friction, and decompose cleaner than a pao or mineral oil What evidence have you seen that the pao won't burn clean? You'd admitted you didn't even know there was such a thing as pao two stroke oil. Now you do. Next step, go through all the steps of trying and test it before qualifying your statements that it's not that good for what ever as you have in the past. I've done more research and have learned more on the issues between the ashless and low ash oils. As in all oils, you are only taking one SMALL part of the oil, and qualifying it as good or indifferent. If you follow the motor oils as you do here on two strokes, you'll know that an oil can really be a sleeper due to the different additives used by a blender. Question, How many two stroke oils have Molybdenum Trialkyldithiocarbamate let alone the Specific chemical identity withheld (trade secret) that they use? Have any idea how that might affect the oils performance compared to one that doesn't? No actual test for that. This is an unknown, just like in motor oils, same deal, you have other compounds/additives that come into play and only until you have used and analyzed can you truly compare how it is affecting the over all performance. I've got m/c shops using the 706, tim sells a pile of it for customers outdoor equipment, boaters using it. Just a pile of different things out there. Same as Amsoil and their ratios, seems they have a different reaction to the blend they have. Yep, I'd be slightly less likely to change the ratio but I really don't know what they are doing different that would allow for them to do this, so IMO, I wouldn't myself, but thats their product which they know as I know the schaeffers 706. I do know that the 706 has proved out for the corrosion protection as well as no exhaust port blockage from any carbon build up, boaters noticing increase hp/ no smoke and the list goes on. Highly recommend not making a total judgment on a specific brand of oil with just some basic details. As I've seen before, it can really come around and surprise you when you consider how the other part of the oil can affect what you know to be true in one not true in the other.

BTW, in those pics above, I suppose you can answer why the other two have carbon built up in the test tubes and schaeffers doesn't? gotta be a simple explaination since it means nothing more than someone running the oil in thier engine and pulling the heads to see how they look.
 
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