HD Synthetic Oil is available

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Copied from another site - just thought I share

"Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Motorcycle Lubricant - SAE 20W50

Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Lubricant works in all three cavities of your motorcycle: the engine, transmission and the primary chaincase and is developed with a proprietary three synthetic basestock formula. This is the first multi-purpose synthetic motorcycle lubricant specifically tested and certified by Harley-Davidson. Formulated to meet the cleanliness requirements of engines providing long term protection with superior high-temperature stability for high output engines. Formulated to maintain the coefficient of friction for proper clutch operation and provide adequate lubrication to the primary chain drive. Formulated to provide lubricity for the anti-wear requirements of transmission gears. Formulated for improved seal protection. Approved by Harley-Davidson for use in all stages of engine life. Lubricant is not detrimental to break-in stage of engines."

http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/...ASSORTMENT<>ast_id=467895&bmUID=1043892864744
 
Wow this was a long time coming! Now we need to find out a couple of things, who makes it (Sunoco makes their regular oil) and is it just a copy of their regular syn (ie. Mobil 1 Vtwin in a new bottle), is it group 3 or 4 or a blend, is it any good compared to Amsoil, Mobil, Redline etc. Can we finally run the whole 5000 mile recommended interval safely with OEM oil? I will try to find out something from the dealers I know .
 
Well so far calls to 2 local Ontario dealerships have brought up just about nothing. They say FDI (Harley Canada) will retail it for about $16CDN litre. That is comparable to regular Harley Oil at $4-5CDN a litre, Amsoil at $10.15CDN a litre or Mobil 1 V twin at about $15CDN a litre. this can be used in the engine, primary and the tranny on all bikes since 84. They were not told who makes it or if it is group 3 or 4.
 
Here are some posts about this from a bike board:

Ken:My local indy shop told me he heard Harley may be coming out with an OFFICIAL Synthetic oil, made by Amsoil (he's an Amsoil rep also). If they do, I can't wait to hear how the factory spin's this one to convince everyone to switch over, bearing skate and all...course I've also heard this rumor before.

FXD:I have wondered why HD doesn't have a synthetic oil myself. I wonder what that would cost? I'm sure they'll say it's specially developed and formulated for THEIR motorcycles only and is NOT the same as synthetic oil for cars. Same spin they put on their dino oil only more.

Ken:I heard the reason HD didn't end up with a final deal with Mobil 1 was because Mobil 1 wanted to put "Mobil 1" label somewhere on the container, rather than strictly saying it was HD oil. Of course, HD wouldn't stand for that. It'll be interesting if this is true to see if anything but HD is on the label. And I wonder what type of rating system they would use.....the old HD 360 type worthless "non definitive" system rather than SL or SJ? I'm sure they'll say something about "friction modifiers" not being added, therefore it's NOT like normal snthetics, or whatever.

I had kind of expected for HD to come out with a synthetic oil with introduction of the TC88 engine, but that didn't happen. Then I kind of expected for them to release one with the V-rod. They are really behind the times not offering a synthetic oil.

I'll continue to use Mobil 1 15W50 car oil. It's high enough for me already at $4.50 or whatever and I think it's wonderful oil. It's gone up 10% or so lately itself.

FXD: I agree. Greedy bastards. Probably $10 a quart.

I heard they (HD) tried to work something out with Mobil 1, but they couldn't agree on a final deal...I guess Amsoil has stepped in.

It seems that HD is losing a lot of money to people who are using synthetics (myself included), and I guess they want to get what they can. I just can't wait to hear the rationale for the switch, since all along they've insisted synthetics are bad for Harley's
 
I'm going to continue using Redline products. I don't understand how the 20W50 can be used in the primary, engine and transmission.
 
Instead of coming up with a special synthetic oil for their motors HD needs to design one that doesnt cook its oil. Liquid cooling will be needed to pass future emmisions so they might as well jump on the bandwagon before the HAVE to. IMO this selling the name/image thing with the yuppies is going to nip them in the tail. They need some design improvments.
 
I beleive all the Harleys will likely be water cooled engines the same as or similar to the Revolution used in the V-Rod by the end of the decade. Design improvments to the late Evo's and new TC88's are not really needed as they perform well for what they were intended for. I own Harleys myself and I really enjoy them. If I wanted a bike that went way over 120MPH and was great for racing I wouldn't think twice about a Honda or Suzuki etc. This would be the way to go, but for myself and many other V Twin enthusiasts as well as the pretenders everyone loves to hate these engines do just fine. I am glad to see Harley selling a Synthetic oil now, it will help put those rumors to rest. Hopefully it is a group four and is made really well. Yes the future of emission standards will eventually rule out any thing like the engines of the 1950's through 2003 but for now I will continue to enjoy old fashion outdated technology like the carbureted pushrod V8 and the 45 degree air cooled American V Twin.
 
I guess this news will make Amsoil sales easier,

Since all along we have been saying how much synthetics can protect over the Harley stuff.

Now at least we won't have to hear the stuff from Harley that they will deny warranty if synthetics are used.

OH, what happen to the deal where synthetics are too slick and won't let the roller bearing work right.
 
I have never personally had a dealer tell me not to use synthetics, but I have heard them hmm and haw about it. The individual riders and indy shops are the ones I have heard the most negative stuff about, always someones friends brother had the bearings on the crank slide and burn out or leaks. If you look in the manuals for 2002 they state a CE,CF,CF-3,CG-4 Diesel oil in 20W50,15W40 or 10W40 are preferred when Harley oil cannot be found. They unlike many other vehicles do not mention API or doughnut/starburst oils required. So if your oil is of the preffered viscosity and is at least C recommended you will be ok for warranty, but if you do blow an engine and use some weird off brand or even a major syn they will usually give you the engine but tell ya to start using Harley oil. I have seen this with people that use Mobil 1 15W50 or 20W50 for whatever reason had an engine failure and they got warranty no problem but were told not to use the same oil use Harley or another reputable brand Castrol, Kendall etc.
 
My Harley customers run the Series 2000, 20w-50 racing oil rather than the 20w-50 V-Twin stuff. Since most of these are dry clutch designs, you don't need a JASO MA rated lube. One guy out in Arizona reported a 15F-20F degree drop in cylinder head temps in his 1340 cc bike.

I would not see any problem running Mobil 1, 15w-50 in any dry clutch motorcycle either ....

I figured HD would get around to synlubes eventually
wink.gif


TooSlick
Dixie Synthetics
 
"I own Harleys myself and I really enjoy them."

And I am beting you would be just as happy on a Honda, Kawasaki or Suzuki. Maybe even happier since you would have $5-10k more in your pocket.

"I would not see any problem running Mobil 1, 15w-50 in any dry clutch motorcycle"
Mobil one 15/50 works fine in wet clutch bikes as well. I have used it in dirtbikes many times. I have also used MObil1 10w30 with good results. I know its suppose to make your clutch slip, but I never noticed it doing so. Actually the bike shifted smoother and the clutch release was smoother as well. This whol FM eating clutches thing is blown way out of perportion. Many bike are not sensitive to FM's.
 
Well here is a more detailed bit on the new oil from Harley's website. Funny how they explain the decades of recommending against synthetic oil.
Also the bearing sliding or skating issue is addressed.


What are the key benefits to using SYN3? SYN3 Lubricant:
Can be used in the engine, primary chaincase, and transmission.
Offers improved film strength for superior wear protection at high temperature, and improved deposit control for a cleaner engine, transmission, and primary chaincase.
Is formulated for reduced oil consumption, improved wear protection, high temperature detergency, and superior overall field performance.
Provides high temperature film strength, which means the lubricant maintains film thickness in high power output and high engine speed conditions, keeping the metal parts from rubbing against each other and resulting in less wear.

In the past, Harley-Davidson® did not recommend the use of synthetic oils in H-D/Buell® motorcycles. Why is H-D introducing a synthetic now? Because Harley-Davidson cannot control the oil and additive formulations of all the manufacturers and cannot test and certify all available synthetics on the market nor control their oil and additive formulations, we have discouraged their use. However, Harley-Davidson, in close partnership with our suppliers, analyzed available petrochemical technology and developed a custom-blended candidate fluid that can couldbe used in all three cavities of a Harley-Davidson/Buell motorcycle. This product has been exclusively designed for Harley-Davidson and is the only synthetic product TESTED and CERTIFIED by Harley-Davidson engineering for use in H-D/Buell motorcycles.
What kind of testing was done on SYN3? Over three years of laboratory bench testing, dynamometer testing under accelerated conditions, open road vehicle durability testing, closed course durability testing, and wear and deposit rating analysis was conducted on SYN3.
Who makes or blends this product? SYN3 is a proprietary blend, exclusively custom-blended for Harley-Davidson.
Will H-D 360 Motorcycle Oil be replaced by SYN3? Harley-Davidson continues to offer H-D 360 Motorcycle Oil. SYN3 is an alternative lubricant product from Harley-Davidson, and in particular, a formula that is very effective for high performance engines and hot climate applications. SYN3 is an alternative lubricant product that will help keep those engines running smoothly.
In which motorcycle models can SYN3 be used? SYN3 is formulated for use in Harley-Davidson Evolution® XL, Evolution 1340, Twin Cam® (all displacements) and Revolution-equipped models and all Buell® models.
Can SYN3 be used in ShovelheadTM engines, 4-speed Big Twin transmissions, and early Shovelhead 5-speed transmissions? Harley-Davidson did not test SYN3 in these engine configurations. There are a multitude of tests that must be completed before a lubricant can be certified for use in Harley-Davidson engines, primary chaincases and transmissions. Many of these tests require that the components be brand new, and the required quantity of new powertrains for testing and validation could not be procured.
Will the use of SYN3 lengthen my service intervals? No, we recommend that you still follow your owner's manual for the proper service schedule for your vehicle.
If this product is a high performance lubricant, why would my service intervals not be extended? While SYN3 will help reduce the amount of impurities to your engine, no lubricant product can reduce fuel dilution (this happens every time you start your vehicle). As a result, the regular service schedule is recommended for optimum performance of your vehicle.
Lubricants begin to break down the moment the engine is started. The long molecular strands of the lubricant begin to be sheared between the faces of gears, pistons or other moving parts. SYN3 was tested to confirm that the lubricant provides the protection required for the engine, primary chaincase and transmission for the drain intervals specified in the Owner's Manual.

A common concern with other available synthetic oils is that roller bearings may "skate" or "float" in the bearing race, and not actually rotate as designed. How does SYN3 prevent this from happening? SYN3 was formulated to provide improved high temperature stability, shear stability, proper lubricity for anti-wear (without roller bearing "skate" or "float") and maintain the coefficient of friction for proper clutch operation (without clutch slippage).
Harley-Davidson does not recommend any lubricants that have not been tested and approved by Harley-Davidson engineering because we do not control the formulations. Lubricants are reformulated frequently to meet changing American Petroleum Institute (API) Ratings. API Ratings are developed and tested for use in water-cooled automotive engines and diesel applications. There is no API Rating (classification) for Motorcycle Engines.

Harley-Davidson, in close partnership with our suppliers, analyzed available petrochemical technology and developed a custom-blended candidate fluid that could be used in all three cavities of a Harley-Davidson/Buell motorcycle.

Can a brand new bike have its fluids drained and refilled with SYN3, without voiding the warranty? Yes, this product can be used as a first fill upon delivery of a new motorcycle. The formula is approved by Harley-Davidson for use in all stages of engine life and is not detrimental to the engine break-in cycle.
Do the cavities that are going to be filled with SYN3 need to be completely drained? Yes, the cavities that are to be filled with SYN3 must be completely drained. It is not recommended to mix SYN3 with other lubricant products. During servicing, a residual amount of fluid will remain in the sumps. It is not required to "flush" out the residual fluids.
Should I put a can of additive in with each oil change? No, SYN3 is blended with an additive package already included. Other additives are not needed and may not be compatible with SYN3. In fact, oil additives may actually dilute the SYN3 formulation.
If I'm on the road, and realize I'm down a quart of engine oil, and cannot buy SYN3, what should I use? If SYN3 is not available and addition of motor oil is required, the first choice would be to add H-D 360 SAE 20W50 to the SYN3 for engine lubrication. Although H-D 360 is compatible with SYN3, we suggest the mixture of the fluids be changed as soon as possible. If H-D 360 is not available, the second choice would be to add an acceptable diesel engine oil as listed in the Owner's Manual, and again we suggest the mixture of the fluids be changed as soon as possible. DO NOT add diesel engine oil to the primary chaincase or transmission.
Can a quart of oil be added to the Primary Chaincase or Transmission when SYN3 is not available? If SYN3 is not available and addition of lubricant to the Primary Chaincase (Evolution 1340 & Twin Cam 88) is required, the first choice would be to add H-D Primary Chaincase Lubricant. Although H-D Primary Chaincase Lubricant is compatible with SYN3, we suggest the mixture of the fluids be changed as soon as possible.
If SYN3 is not available and addition of lubricant to the Primary Chaincase and Transmission (common reservoir) for Evolution XL and all Buell models is required, the first choice would be to add H-D Sport-Trans Fluid. Although H-D Sport-Trans Fluid is compatible with SYN3, we suggest the mixture of the fluids be changed as soon as possible.

If SYN3 is not available and addition of lubricant to the Transmission (Evolution 1340 andTwin Cam 88) is required, DO NOT ADD H-D Semi-Synthetic Transmission Lubricant as the two lubricants are NOT compatible.
 
Maybe they are blending themselves? Or mabe Miller brewing? They are saying "SYN3 is a proprietary blend, exclusively custom-blended for Harley-Davidson." so that would mean no one else can market it.

They want to corner the market on synthetic oil used in the HD products. You can imagine the HD dealers are now going to say that unless you use only the HD oil, you are going to damage your engine.

I don't think I would ever buy a new HD because of the attitude of the dealers. I have a good friend with a 2000 HD he purchased new from a dealer in Wisconsin. He likes his bike but won't ever go back to that dealer. He said he was lectured to by some know-it-all mechanic who was about 21 yo and told him in so many words that his warranty was in jeparody if he used synthetic. He was so irate at the way they treated him after droping over $20,000 that he went and purchased some Mobil 1 V-Twin oil and put it in his bike. Now has around 20,000 miles and it never has run as good.
 
I don't think they blend it themselves. As far as I know Harley only makes some bikes and some of the part lines. Almost everything else is contracted out. They have never made there own oil as far as I know. It could be a regular syn line like say Mobil 1 V Twin with say more ZDDP to make it a special blend. Or any of the before mentioned refiners could have made a custom oil for them.

As far as the dealers go like any business it is hit and miss. I know and am also good friends with several owners of HD dealerships. Some of them are great guys and are really helpfull and let you make the desicions about your bike and inform people truthfully about what can and cannot be done and the consequences of some actions (That 110HP stroker won't last forever). Others are not so friendly and use lies and scare tactics about oil and other things just to increase profits and keep you away from the aftermarket. It's to bad that these guys give the honest dealers and shops a bad rep but this practice is not limited to only Harley dealers or bike shops in general. Like I said at the top of this paragraph some guys are only in it for the money and some are in it for the money and knowing they helped some one out or made that persons day buy selling them a product or a service.
 
There is no truth to the rumor (per Amsoil) that Amsoil produces HD Screaming Eagle synthetic oil.

But as was said its ironic that, after years of condemming it, they come out with thier own product?
 
Here is where the oil might come from. Ok it has been confirmed Amsoil is not making it by Amsoil. Mobil 1 Tri Synthetic sounds similar to Syn 3 from Harley. Could it mean 3 as in it goes in all three lube resevoirs on the bike, 3 as in group 3 or 3 as in 3 blended basestocks? Mobil was rumoured to be in discusion with Harley about it a while back maybe they struck a deal maybe not. Sunoco makes the regular Harley 360 Oil so maybe it is a group 3 and Sunoco makes this as well. If it is neither Ams, Mob, Sun, then who else could make a group 4 for them (redline,shaeffers etc)? If it is a group 3 then almost anyone could do it but why not just use Sunoco.
 
quote:

Originally posted by blano:
And I am beting you would be just as happy on a Honda, Kawasaki or Suzuki. Maybe even happier since you would have $5-10k more in your pocket.

This is
offtopic.gif
but I felt the need to point out that any similar NEW Honda, Kawi, or Suzuki will be very similar in price to a NEW Harley. It's when buying used that the others become $5-10k cheaper.

Now, back on the subject. Has anyone done a VOA on this new Harley synthetic? It should be quite interesting. I don't think I have even seen it on the shelf yet.
 
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