Moly in MX4T?

[RC211V]

Can anyone provide qualitative evidence that MX4T 10W-40 has moly?

I just purchased 4qts. this evening and I would like to confirm this before I change the oil tomorrow.

On another note, I was told by the parts rep. at the cycle shop that they will no longer carry Motul since they are losing money on it. Customers are using car oil or the -shears half its weight after startup- m/c oils

. They do, however, still carry Castrol R4 Superbike at $12/qt!

Are people purchasing this? I don't know any racers that use this oil (this is really a track oil, as I have been told) but I will start asking around more. Before I spend this amount of money on oil, I would like to know how it holds up, it's aw package and so forth. My street bike does not see the track so this would be overkill. This was the only bike shop to carry Motul since all the bike shops here locally carry the blends and regular dino m/c oils.

MX4 was purchased at Shucks.

If only more people knew about spectrographic analysis.

-Nader

 

[Chris]

I believe I called Mobil about this oil a while ago and they said it had no moly. Maybe a Mobil person can step up here and answer some of the questions in this section of the site?!

 

[dragboat]

Moly is a FM,per the Mobil website no FM's in the M/C oil they make.

 

[satterfi]

An analysis I saw 2 years ago showed no moly.

 

[Chris]

Satterfi, do you know where the analysis is?

 

[satterfi]

From Motorcycle Consumer News, Oct 2000

M1 MX4T

code:

---

P 1370

Zn 1579

Mg 615

Ca 2587

B 231

Mo 0

TBN 10

---

Insert latest Mobil I could find
That is double the Boron of the Trysynthetic

Mobil MX4T
Boron_________________231
Sodium______5
Moly_______5
Phosphorus_____1370
Zinc______1579
Calcium____2587
Magnesium_____615
TBN______9.99
visc.____13.7

Mobil 15/50 Trysyn
Mobil 1 Tri Synth (auto)
Boron_____109
Sodium____7
Moly_______11
Phosphorus____1190
Zinc______1485
Calcium____843
Magnesium______1720
TBN____10.32
visc.__17.3

[ January 07, 2003, 05:27 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[dragboat]

Would a Amsoil Site supporter please post a VOA of the Amsoil 10/40 AMF or the 10/40 M/C ? Both are the same oils in a different bottle.

I would like the see the difference in Mobil's 8 buck a quart oil and Amsoils 5.50 per quart oil

 

[satterfi]

From Motorcycle Consumer News, Oct 2000

Amsoil 10w40 (auto)

code:

---

P 1158

Zn 1493

Mg 23

Ca 3454

B 2

TBN 11.1

---

 

[Chris]

Dragboat can you post the info for the Castrol R-4 and the Motul E-100 for comparison?

 

[RC211V]

Thanks for the confirmation, fellas.

Looking at the additive packages of M1 and Amsoil, based on the below figures, the major difference is the Boron, which has two functions, anti-oxidant and extreme pressure lubricant. My understanding is that Boron provides a higher resistance to shearing at high loads/temps, perhaps more so then Moly. Anyone in disagreement?
[credit goes to Bror for digging the info on Boron

]

What remains to be seen is what makes Castrol's R4 oil worth $12/qt.

The only variable I can think of that would separate the R4 from MX4T would be the higher concentration of additives, such as boron. But does that justify the cost? I don't believe so. Also, I don't believe Motul's 300V competition oil costs that much.

Anyone have any data on the R4? I will see if I can convince some racers that use Motul 300V or the R4 to analyze their oil to determine which holds up under the severe conditions of the race track.

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by satterfi:
From Motorcycle Consumer News, Oct 2000

M1 MX4T

code:

---

P 1370

Zn 1579

Mg 615

Ca 2587

B 231

Mo 0

TBN 10

---

Insert latest Mobil I could find
That is double the Boron of the Trysynthetic

Mobil MX4T
Boron_________________231
Sodium______5
Moly_______5
Phosphorus_____1370
Zinc______1579
Calcium____2587
Magnesium_____615
TBN______9.99
visc.____13.7

Mobil 15/50 Trysyn
Mobil 1 Tri Synth (auto)
Boron_____109
Sodium____7
Moly_______11
Phosphorus____1190
Zinc______1485
Calcium____843
Magnesium______1720
TBN____10.32
visc.__17.3

---

I wonder if it now hs SuperSyn. I'm guessing so with the level of Calcium

 

[RC211V]

Just noticed the Vis. of MX4T at 13.7, which puts it at quite a low 40 weight

. Is this for a virgin sample or a used sample?

If used, how many miles and what bike?

[ January 08, 2003, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: RC211V ]

 

[satterfi]

Those numbers are for virgin oil.

I'll bet it shears to a 30w in short order. I went through the UOA forum looking at all M1 and Amsoil 40w and 50w oils and with only one exception they shear down pretty fast in both cars and bikes.

I think I'll stick with ester based oils like Redline since they don't shear very fast.

 

[Chris]

Just put the Mobil 1 MX4T in my Honda 600 F-3. I was hoping for an improvement in the shifting; it was either a bit worse or there was no difference. Clunk, clunk... maybe it is because the gearbox is not fully broken in, only 2400 miles! Any comments on this? Glad I only paid $3 per quart.

 

[satterfi]

Get used to it. That's the way Honda's are.

If you could use Redline it would help the 1st to 2nd clunk but the neutral to 1st clunk is never going to go away.

A friend who has a VFR said Golden Spectro helped smooth the shifting some.

$3/qt is a great price for MX4T. How'd you swing that?

 

[Chris]

Got the MX4T at Walmart on clearance. I really think the bike shifts worse now verses the poor Honda GN-4. Golden Specto does not seem to be up to par even if it can help the shifting. Have an interest in the Redline 10-40 but the 600 ppm of moly is a concern since the manual says No Moly. Redline said it is fine to use since they only use an organic form of moly!?

Anyone know how the Castrol R-4 may effect the shifting action?

 

[satterfi]

Chris

I'd try Amsoil 20w-50 next. Maybe part of the reason Redline shifts smoother is because it's thicker than other 10w40's and not just because of the moly.

If Redline says it's ok to use then I'd be very tempted to try it.

 

[RC211V]

Iam disappointed to see the MX4T at such a low weight.

. I will see how it holds up after 3500-4000 miles then I will sample it. I won't dismiss this oil yet until I perform the analysis since viscosity scale isn't everything.

I put the MX in this weekend and I did not notice any difference in shifting, during slow paced rides. BTW, the Bardahl blend turned to water after 500 miles!

We drained it when the bike was warm and it was so thin in the pan that it flicked like water.

But this bike has always shifted rather smoothly and precisely when ridden hard and shifted at redline, regardless of oil. Any ideas why?

Any ideas if Redline is in the process of making a M/C specific oil? I would be sold for life.

Until then, I am following the manuals recommendations for no Moly.

Chris,
You need to ride more often! I have a 01 F4i that has 11,800 on it.

 

[Chris]

The Honda oil with 900 miles on it also came out like water. All the bikes I have ridden seem to shift good at high RPM, just clunky at a slower, normal pace.
I am sort of afraid of using an oil with moly too.

The low miles is due to way too many hours of work (often 6-7 days a week), a now 4 year old, and the need for a babysitter!!

 

[GeorgeCLS]

The Mobil 1 MX4T is very shear table in that it has nothing in it to shear! Stays on vis very, very well. I know Consumer's is a bit of a bane, but in its last test from several years ago MX4T came out highly rated, primarily in terms of used viscosity/stability. I am not suggesting that MC Consumer's oil evaluation was perfect but it wasn't too bad. Evaluating oils is a difficult task and some of the aspects were pretty well done. MC Consumer is currently starting another oil test series with the January 2003 issue.
George