Mcmech's Kawasaki only has 4kmi on the clock so the wear numbers don't mean much. I agree that Redline is an excellent motorcycle oil, though.
Golden Spectro 4 analysis
- Thread starter mcmech
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A oil primarialy only is there to cool the the wet clutch on a M/C. They enclose those things in the case to keep the clutch assembly/basket out of the elements and clutch dust off the right boot,the elements can included a car wash..FWIW the best oils I have used is the Castrol R4 , the Motul E-100 10/40 and Valvoline 40wt racing dino,,when it is up to temp has never had a smoother shift than with the now called VR1 Racing oil. No real help for some of the Hondas unless you split the case and back-cut the engagement dogs but if this is done don't get the full race cut,you will experience too much driveline backlash.
If you experience clutch drag while cold the oil is too viscous,,I really like the R4 and the E-100 Motul oils but older seals and older bikes do not like these oils
It looks like Bel-Ray now offers a real oil and a few others have group IV'V's.One just has to look around and the markup is huge! I buy R4 for 5 bucks a quart even to my door. I might throw it in my wifes commuter car and run it a couple years and do a UOA on it for ya
Quote:
"You fellas still think used oil analysis in a shared sump bike isn't worth bothering with? "
Yep it's a waste if using a good oil,you can see the metallic particles in the oil so whats the use?,now using a UOA to find that good oil that's not shearing might be needed. Most cannot ride a bike fast or long enough to kill the oil early anyway unless they are using a PCMO or other undesirable oil and or crazy oil change intervals with a good oil.
When the powerlevel is increased you will feel the difference with a oil containing moly unless you increase the spring pressures on the clutch.If the clutch is a little weak you will notice when changing to a synlube because it will slip a bit .
I still do not think moly plates to ultra smooth surface materials like main and rod bearings. The aluminum plates in a M/C clutch may get some plated in the low side irregularities,same will cylinder walls and pistons . A change to a barnett steel plate would be a priotity of mine and how the starter drive was designed would be of upmost importance to me if wanting to use a FM'd oil
EDIT:
A friend of mine put PTFE in a Suzuki GSXR years back,,it killed the clutch
His friend put STP in a bike,slipped from the git/go so don't try any 132 would be my opinion.
In 1987 on Hollywood BLVD at dawn I watched my friend race a Lambo V-12 from a redlite,,the GSXR 750 did well until the middle of second gear,,those Countach's will run! They sound wicked too
Anyone here every been to the rock Store on Mulholland Drive? Plastic pieces at every turn on the drive along with deep scares in the pavement,further North in thr high country the roads are white tire shredding rock,,easy to get a knee on the ground there and turn the tires blue
[ December 31, 2002, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
If you experience clutch drag while cold the oil is too viscous,,I really like the R4 and the E-100 Motul oils but older seals and older bikes do not like these oils
It looks like Bel-Ray now offers a real oil and a few others have group IV'V's.One just has to look around and the markup is huge! I buy R4 for 5 bucks a quart even to my door. I might throw it in my wifes commuter car and run it a couple years and do a UOA on it for ya
Quote:
"You fellas still think used oil analysis in a shared sump bike isn't worth bothering with? "
Yep it's a waste if using a good oil,you can see the metallic particles in the oil so whats the use?,now using a UOA to find that good oil that's not shearing might be needed. Most cannot ride a bike fast or long enough to kill the oil early anyway unless they are using a PCMO or other undesirable oil and or crazy oil change intervals with a good oil.
When the powerlevel is increased you will feel the difference with a oil containing moly unless you increase the spring pressures on the clutch.If the clutch is a little weak you will notice when changing to a synlube because it will slip a bit .
I still do not think moly plates to ultra smooth surface materials like main and rod bearings. The aluminum plates in a M/C clutch may get some plated in the low side irregularities,same will cylinder walls and pistons . A change to a barnett steel plate would be a priotity of mine and how the starter drive was designed would be of upmost importance to me if wanting to use a FM'd oil
EDIT:
A friend of mine put PTFE in a Suzuki GSXR years back,,it killed the clutch
In 1987 on Hollywood BLVD at dawn I watched my friend race a Lambo V-12 from a redlite,,the GSXR 750 did well until the middle of second gear,,those Countach's will run! They sound wicked too
Anyone here every been to the rock Store on Mulholland Drive? Plastic pieces at every turn on the drive along with deep scares in the pavement,further North in thr high country the roads are white tire shredding rock,,easy to get a knee on the ground there and turn the tires blue
[ December 31, 2002, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
"Mcmech, I'm curious. Did you notice that your bike shifted better or worse toward the end of your interval?"
I do notice a slight difference when the oil gets some miles on. Not quite as smooth and a missed shift here and there.
Dragboat jogged my memory about Motul.
I used Motul for 2 years in a '88 GSXR 750.
It's an air/oil cooled engine.
This bike was used for roadracing and saw about 2,000 miles of 8-10K rpm running, usually in high summer heat.
In that time, there were only 3 or 4 valves that ever needed adjusting and the valve train looked like new after 2 years.
Granted, the oil was changed every 200-300 miles, but I don't think a lesser oil would have protected the motor that well.
BTW, I think oil temp. guages are a must on any air-cooled motorcycle. Espcecially if you do a lot of city/slow speed riding.
I do notice a slight difference when the oil gets some miles on. Not quite as smooth and a missed shift here and there.
Dragboat jogged my memory about Motul.
I used Motul for 2 years in a '88 GSXR 750.
It's an air/oil cooled engine.
This bike was used for roadracing and saw about 2,000 miles of 8-10K rpm running, usually in high summer heat.
In that time, there were only 3 or 4 valves that ever needed adjusting and the valve train looked like new after 2 years.
Granted, the oil was changed every 200-300 miles, but I don't think a lesser oil would have protected the motor that well.
BTW, I think oil temp. guages are a must on any air-cooled motorcycle. Espcecially if you do a lot of city/slow speed riding.
Jay, good point on mcmech’s bike being so new. That does throw the wear numbers in a different light. I should have picked up on that ... but I was a little floored by satterfi’s results in comparison to what we’ve just seen.
‘boat : “Yep, (UOA) is a waste if using a good oil, you can see the metallic particles in the oil so what’s the use?, Now using a UOA to find that good oil that's not shearing might be needed.”
I think that’s enough of a reason. mcmech’s wear numbers weren’t too bad after 1,000 miles ... but what if he changed the oil only once per year, and put 3,000 miles on the bike that year ... what then? Does anyone here think that oil was ready for another couple thousand miles when it only barely did the job for the first 1,000 and sheared down so much during that time?
However, once you have determined an oil is quality stuff, then you might be right, continued (trend) analysis is probably not worth doing.
“A friend of mine put PTFE in a Suzuki GSXR years back, it killed the clutch. His friend put STP in a bike, slipped from the git/go so don't try any Schaeffer 132.”
I’ve recalled a similar story in another thread about a dude who did essentially the same thing with STP. He added it to his bike and then let the clutch out and the bike didn’t move. He said that’s how he knew STP was actually doing something in his car.
In September, I gave him a pint of #132 for his Kawasaki 1100 (the sportster model) but told him to split the pint across two oil changes.
fftopic:
That Lambo vs. cycle race, wasn’t something similar done on the cover of some bike magazine about that time … or was it Road & Track?
My brother raced Mike Tyson in his Lambo V12 SUV with a moderately built ’68 Dodge Charger 440 at a stoplight in downtown Albany. This happened around 1989, I think. It wasn’t even close.
My brother said Tyson just grinned at him afterwards. Probably the only time he took “losing” reasonably well.
--- Bror Jace
‘boat : “Yep, (UOA) is a waste if using a good oil, you can see the metallic particles in the oil so what’s the use?, Now using a UOA to find that good oil that's not shearing might be needed.”
I think that’s enough of a reason. mcmech’s wear numbers weren’t too bad after 1,000 miles ... but what if he changed the oil only once per year, and put 3,000 miles on the bike that year ... what then? Does anyone here think that oil was ready for another couple thousand miles when it only barely did the job for the first 1,000 and sheared down so much during that time?
However, once you have determined an oil is quality stuff, then you might be right, continued (trend) analysis is probably not worth doing.
“A friend of mine put PTFE in a Suzuki GSXR years back, it killed the clutch. His friend put STP in a bike, slipped from the git/go so don't try any Schaeffer 132.”
I’ve recalled a similar story in another thread about a dude who did essentially the same thing with STP. He added it to his bike and then let the clutch out and the bike didn’t move. He said that’s how he knew STP was actually doing something in his car.
In September, I gave him a pint of #132 for his Kawasaki 1100 (the sportster model) but told him to split the pint across two oil changes.
fftopic:That Lambo vs. cycle race, wasn’t something similar done on the cover of some bike magazine about that time … or was it Road & Track?
My brother raced Mike Tyson in his Lambo V12 SUV with a moderately built ’68 Dodge Charger 440 at a stoplight in downtown Albany. This happened around 1989, I think. It wasn’t even close.
--- Bror Jace
Quote:
"offtopic:
That Lambo vs. cycle race, wasn’t something similar done on the cover of some bike magazine about that time … or was it Road & Track?"
Dunno,was busy at the time digging my camera out of my tank bag to take pics,,did not see any news reporters around either
But if you dig the article out,see if the Suzuki had Oklahoma plates
I really thought the bike would do better than it did,the Lambo not exactly being a drag car and all.
M/C like these get smoked by cars of this type on the Interstate from 60mph on up. The frontal area of a Yamaha FJ1200 is more than the Ferrari GT-308 FWIW. A bike without a fairing is even worse,,kinda like a box van
"offtopic:
That Lambo vs. cycle race, wasn’t something similar done on the cover of some bike magazine about that time … or was it Road & Track?"
Dunno,was busy at the time digging my camera out of my tank bag to take pics,,did not see any news reporters around either
I really thought the bike would do better than it did,the Lambo not exactly being a drag car and all.
M/C like these get smoked by cars of this type on the Interstate from 60mph on up. The frontal area of a Yamaha FJ1200 is more than the Ferrari GT-308 FWIW. A bike without a fairing is even worse,,kinda like a box van
I just changed my oil on the EX500 I've got and I put Golden Spectro 4 10w-40 in it. After seeing these replies and results, I'm tempted to change my oil at 1000 miles for something else. I do occasionally rev the engine hard but I usually keep my rpm range below 6500 and I definitely don't do any high-performance riding. Can anyone recommend a good synthetic blend that won't drain my wallet? Thanks.
I have been using Mobil 1 15w/50 auto oil in my '97 Honda 750 Nighthawk (air/oil cooled) for years. It currently has 44,000 miles on it. A friend of mine used to have a '91 Pacific Coast (800cc liquid cooled twin), used nothing but Mobil 1 for 97,000 miles, never had any problems. He also had a '96 Nighthawk, put 86,000 miles on that (no probs either) and currently has an '01 Kawasaki W650 (air cooled 25,000 miles) using Mobil 1 15w/50. I have always solved shifting problems by properly adjusting and aligning the drivechain, adjusting clutch cable freeplay, or going with heavy duty clutch springs.
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