Moly Additive in a 2-cycle Oil

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With 3 2-cycle boat engines, 60 Johnson, 90 Suzuki, 200EFI Mercury I am concerned about 2-Cycle oil. I presently use Synthetic in all 3 of them. Would a small amount of moly additive in the oil be good for the engine? All are oil injected.

Updated 7/6/02---I emptied the oil out of my 90 Suzuki and am using Schaeffer's 2-cycle with moly.

[ July 06, 2002, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
 
I'd strongly suggest not to add any moly additive as most have other additives in addition such as vi improvers which if added to your 2stroke could cause fowling and who knows what.

Unless your a chemist with experience in mixing the proper types of additives and know what the balance in the base oil being added to is known, I'd say your taking a chance of messing up a high dollar investment.

That being said, And not to sound like I'm pushing Schaeffers, I do agree that moly is a great thing to have in the 2 stroke, and is available already designed in to the oil.

Look at the Schaeffers 706 TCW3 2stroke oil listed here.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/706.html

If anyone else knows of any tcw3 2stroke oil with a soluble moly in it, post it as well, but I know of none myself.

I myself have many customers (boaters, lawn maint companies, and motorcylce shops) that love this stuff as it eliminates the smell and near all smoke produced by most 2stroke engines therefore doesn't tend to make people nausause or queasy while on the boat.

Another thing good is it doesn't create a hard carbon deposit where most build up carbon deposits on the exhaust ports. This is particlularly true in small gas powered lawn engines. When this happens it causes the engine to lose power and not run well.

[ June 22, 2002, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
I bought some Red Line "All-Sport" 2-cycle oil for my brother and his snowmobiles. He has a lil' "Kitty Cat" that he bought for his daughter and I know he's already run that stuff in this thing.

http://redlineoil.com/frames/twocycl.htm

I can't comment on wear. Red Line claims excellent scuff protection (as you'd expect them to) with this stuff but I don't know what additives they put in their 2-stroke formulas.

What I DO know is that there is almost NO SMOKE with their oil and with little kids around, this is a plus.
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Both redline and Amsoil use Esters in their formulations. I beleive Amsoil uses TMP esters
whereas Redline use some esters from Castor oil (for higher biodegradeability)in the one formulation for their "Green" product.

http://www.amsoil.com/products/tcr.htm

I have had excellent results with the Series 2000 in Chainsaws, weedeaters, snowmobiles, Augers, and other 2-cycle equipment.

From my research, esters produce the least smoke and best lubricity.

MolaKule
 
I think the questions was..
quote:

If anyone else knows of any tcw3 2stroke oil with a soluble moly in it, post it as well, but I know of none myself

I think the statement was pretty clear.. As the actual question was
quote:

Would a small amount of moly additive in the oil be good for the engine

.

What does that have to do with the esters?
 
Bob,

I think it would be nice if you appreciated the input and discussion from all the users on this board especially those of the likes of MolaKule - we are lucky to have him aboard.

Is it me or do you take offence to people mentioning the word Amsoil in any topic? I think the way you challenge people who have something good to say about Amsoil is uncalled for - is this an oil board or a Schaeffer's board?

From the Castrol Syntec thread:

quote:

Mola,

I'd sure wish you'd post your oil analysis reports on the board since you seem to be a big amsoil fan I'd think sharing that would let us all see just how good this oil really is under real life conditions and especially if you are using it the way it was ment to be used.



[ June 23, 2002, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: GW ]
 
GW,
I DO take offense as I see people doing nothing more than just pushing amsoil or any one particular oil only for that matter with no regards to any other oil, OR, Pushing any oil including schaeffers when the subject matter is of another nature, and in this case, my question was how does the esters of a tcw3 base oil in amsoil relate to moly in the tcw3? If I read it correctly, we were discussing the moly additive in two stroke applications.

Yes, there has been way more pushing on one particular oil with no mention of others as well and I have to admit that I have come on defensively in some cases trying to establish that schaeffers too has products to compare with which has made me very uneasy as I feel I'm pushing schaeffers on this board and I personally don't like it.

I have really tried to maintain a fine line of not mentioning schaeffers everytime oil is mentioned but after seeing amsoil this or redline that or rp here and there for recommendations to people on a specific subject with no regards to others that also have excellent products and do an excellent job is to me a no no.

If you mention a sugested oil with regards to a question and explain as to why it is a good choice, also, I think it would be courteous as well to try and be more open to suggest at least one or two others that can follow so as to maintain a simple balance and this issue will not be problematic as way to many people (sometimes including myself) get a little defensive that their favorite oi is not mentioned as well.

Then that person ends up putting in his comments about his as well and then it continues and sounds way too much like other boards where its a product war and not a discussion board with reasoning as what to look for or why this is a better choice in lew of others.

I think this board has been moving in the wrong direction latley. This forum is designed to helping people understand the differences between oils, what your opinions as to why you think that way, and all of us learn or understand.

You are most definatly correct as to the quality of all on here and I cannot even put into words the appreciation I have for people such as Johnny, bror,terry, and Molakule and yourself, just to name a few.

I hope that people do understand I'm getting this off my chest now so to hopefully keep this board as is. I don't want to see flames at each other and I am really sick of having to bring my particular products up in defense to ensure that others reading dont go away thinking that just redline or amsoil or whoevers oil is the only oil that does that. (I know there has been a few that has tried keeping this balance and it doesnt' go unoticed.)

This board is a oil discussion board and You as well as many of us have seen where this stuff gets agrivating where mention of just one oil as the cure all gets tiring.

Pleas note one other thing, I stated plainly,
quote:

If anyone else knows of any tcw3 2stroke oil with a soluble moly in it, post it as well but I know of none myself

The board was open to any other suggested oil that may have moly in it as that statement was clear as well.

As for th castrol thread, I asked for oil analysis as there is a lot of people who submit that amsoil is great. There is no doubt in my mind that amsoil is a good oil. My purpose for asking that was I have yet to see where anyone has actually done the extended 25k drains with amsoil having done analysis during that time and figured that anyone in the business of chemistry or lubrication in general would surly have some analysis report. That was not a gig at Molakule nor amsoil direct, just a statement that courious minds want to know. I will pose that to you as well since I know you have stated at times you have used amsoil, do you have analysis to show how it faired while doing the 25k drains.

I know Al has done analysis with amsoil and kept his to a moderate 12k as he felt that was the best for him.

[ June 23, 2002, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
Bob,
I do appreciate you bringing up a comparable Scaeffer product when another one is mentioned. I did not even know that the Company existed until 3 months ago. I have since learned about Alum. complex in grease, Moly in oils and grease ect. I must admit, my eyes and mind have been opened to some good products as I already use Diesel Treat 2000 (bought in bulk from a Shell Dealer, so no label) and am very interested in the Soy additives as well as the 15W40 diesel oil and 10W30 for autos.
But I have also used Mobil I, Amsoil, Castrol, Shell Fire&Ice, Delo 400, Rotella T, Max Life 10W40, Pennzoil,Quaker State and to many more to list. If I make a post and had good luck, I mention the brand, and if I had problems I will mention that also.
Remember that a person is proud of what he/she uses and purchases whether it be oil or autos. Sometimes, in my case it was because I didn't know better and have used inferior products. But now in the computer age, I ask first, get all the responses and then purchase. And "Thanks" to you and this site I can do that.
So have a cold one on me, and things will flow for the better. A quote I borrowed: "It is always better to beg for forgiveness than to ask permission"
 
Hey guys, no offense taken. And I will concede
that I may have been somewhat off the subject, and with that I apologize. As with Bob, I appreciate all who have used alternative lubes and state their cases, sing their praisies, etc.

Regarding Amsoil, I mention it because of my experience with it, etc.

As stated in another post, I will have some analysis on the Amsoil 10W30 for two vehicles as soon as I receive the reports (1 week?).

I also stated in another post that I personally, with the vehicles I have and my driving habits, have NOT been able to go past 12,000 miles on any vehicle with any of their (Amsoil) oils. My reasoning is that I believe that any oil loads-ups with microfine particles
and soon it's dispersant package becomes overwhelmed, subsequently requiring replacement.
In fact, I even use a by-pass system on one of the vehicles and found I can go farther on an oil change, but never 20 to 35,000 miles, Amsoil's claims notwithstanding.

I think the oil analysis section on this list is one of the better features, since everyone can examine the results, discuss it (with comments from experienced people in all corners) and then the examiner (consumer) can make his/her decisions about it.

So keep up the good work.

"Constructive criticism is one of the avenues of good communications."
 
Bob, I only mentioned Red Line because I know they have moly (a lot of it) in their gear and motor oils and that they'd be a likely candidate for having some in their 2-cycle oils if that was a suitable application. I clearly stated in my reply that my experience with that product was limited.

Bobis: "... which has made me very uneasy as I feel I'm pushing Schaeffers on this board and I personally don't like it."

It's your board and I can't see why you'd feel uneasy about mentioning your brand of oil. Other than you and Dave, I don't know who has a decent knowledge of what Schaeffer has to offer for a given application.
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Another example would be if someone made a comment about the additive "Penzane" and Johhny failed to comment I'd wonder what was wrong.

We all have our pet brands to one degree or another and as long as we're respectful, and not too pushy, I don't see what harm is done by a member throwing in 2 cents about this or that brand if it's at least fairly related to the topic ... or where the topic has meandered to.

If someone is promoting one brand excessively, you might want to warn him privately that this is not the place.
 
Guys, Sorry for the off topic discussion here.
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I really wasn't pointing direct fingers here but as GW mentioned, He felt I was being defensive and I somewhat agree that maybe I have been a little. So in response, I decieded to let the sails fill with all my hot air about the subject since it was brought up.
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I'm really trying not to let this board become a breeding ground for a bunch of salesmen (especially those of them that have no idea what they are talking about)
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to infest this as I have seen this more than once and has made many good people leave.

Bror , I realalize this is my board, and I will not hesitate to respond to any questions about schaeffers and their product. I just want to maintain a balance of educating people about our products and experiences, with out saying we are the best since as this is a BOLD statement and there is many that are as good and maybe?
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some better.

Anyway, Your comments nor Molakules was taken in that way. I totally understand you sharing your experiences but at times, I, and I hope others will question yours and my reasons for suggesting such products as this helps us all understand if there is any validity to the refferal or just hot air.
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. This is the way I learn and is a good checks and balance system to maintaining a stream line discussion IMO.
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Thanks to all that has responded, and I really appreciate any constructive crisisim that may help us to achive a higher level of integrity on this board.
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[ June 23, 2002, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
Bobis: I'm really trying not to let this board become a breeding ground for a bunch of salesmen ... I just want to maintain a balance of educating people about our products and experiences, with out saying we are the best since as this is a BOLD statement and there is many that are as good and maybe some better.”

I can understand this. I have been to non-automotive boards where promoters certain brand names over others and it gets to be a drag and a turn off. As you said, it is a careful balancing act. At an oil board, people are going to have their pet brands … but that does not mean they have to be pushy, rude, etc ... Personally, I have not seen this … but then I don’t necessarily view every thread.

Imagine if you started a general pick-up truck board? Can you imagine the underlying Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge tension?
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All in all, I think things around here are working out fairly well.
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