Oceans are Cooling

[XS650]

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China, for instance, is burning over an area more than 3,000 miles wide and almost 450 miles long.

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That, co-incidentally happens to be the size of the region of China where the coal fields are. I seriosuly doubt tha the whole region is on fire

It sounds more like sloppy reporting on the part of the magazine and non-critical thinking on the part of everyone who has commented on that article here, myself included.

There are big coal fires in China and they are a big problem, no need for the press to outrageously exagerate the magnitude of the problem.

 

[obbop]

It may just be short-term data but...... every US Navy warship with a sonar aboard drops a BT (bathythermograph) thingy into the ocean's depths. Back in the 70s it was done every four hours. I see no reason for them to have changed the procedure since the data is important in many ways.

Out instruments drew a graph as the lead-weighted critter with a thin wire spooling out behind sank into the inky depths, knocking who knows how many fish, whales and squids in the head as it sank to the bottom.

I forget the max depth it recorded to but it was quite a was down.

The graph showed temperature versus depth.

That info was sent to Pearl Harbor where it was used locally and also sent to other agencies interested in the data.

As we wandered the world's oceans all those reports over time add up.

As stated.... we may have only 40 or so years of data but it comes in daily and will keep coming in as long as the grass grows, the rivers run, the ships are still steaming across the wide wide waters and the sun does not blossom into a red giant, engulfing the inner planets and extinguishing all life on Earth including the removal of every last aspect of the biosphere. If that happens I believe the concern about global warming will cease.

The end.

 

[Dan4510]

zealotry = imputing cause and effect without sufficient data to uphold the conclusion. In other words faith; believing in something when no evidence exists, a total denial of scientific method.

Dan

 

[Shannow]

The sun's intensity has increased something like 30% over the measurable past (millenia), and the Earth's thermostat has been able to control itself, and even throw in some global freezing phenomenon.

Currently, there is more CO2 in the air than has ever existed, and we are largely the culprits (a lot of the methan is due to us also).

We are carrying out a global experiment with the very thing that we need to survive, and to do without is not an option. So we should be prudent.

As to all those flawed climate models that have been produced and come up with different answers (and yes ALL point to warming, which you'd expect if they were working), I came across this in Lovelock's latest book (the one where he advocates massive expansion in fission power).

 

[Dan4510]

So .0003 is more than .0002 co2. That is not enough to do the trick. So miniscule of a change that it is laughable. Furthermore, co2 is the end result of biological processes that man has nothing to do with, so to methane creation. We still do not emit more than 3 or so percent of these gases that are put into the environment. Until we can stop all decay and methane output, its ludicrous to even talk about this as an input that effects the system.

Dan

 

[Shannow]

That's OK Dan, you enjoy your religion, and I'll enjoy mine.

Mine, even if I'm wrong has me trying to conserve resources, which is still a good message.

Biological processes aside, the climate change facility that I work at pumps 50,000 tonnes a day of CO2 that if it weren't for us would be locked underground in a coal seam. There are two similar facilities in my state, and thousands more around the world...that's not natural.

 

[moribundman]

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(a lot of the methan is due to us also).

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That's what Ms moribunman says all the time. I blame Pablo.

 

[mechtech]

obbop - Does/did our military share info like this with civilians?
It wasn't until a few years ago that our FBI and CIA communicated.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by Shannow:
Mine, even if I'm wrong has me trying to conserve resources, which is still a good message.

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Yea thats what always gets me. The argument against doing nothing could be fatal the argument against doing something isn't. Unfortunately sit back and enjoy the show bc doing nothing is driving this train.

 

[Master ACiD]

i hope the oceans are cooling off. its bloody hot in south florida. i would walcome a change from this terribly hot summer.

 

[MarkC]

You wouldn't welcome it if the Gulf Stream changed position.

 

[rusty 63 model]

I feel global warming/climate is occuring. Just the weather patterns in my little piece of the world has changed in 20-30 years. Many more hurricanes, extreme periods of heat and drought and warmer winters are my observations.

But I am not convinced that we on earth have anything to do with it. The earth, and its weather, is such a gigantic entity to create its own patterns, and we humans are just a small brain of sand in its beach. The earths entity should be able to heal and conform itself. I have read differing opinions on the ozone holes over the poles, from supposed reputable sources. One story reports the problem is getting worse. Another reports that the holes are closing/fixing themselves. I just dont know which to believe. As far as warming, I am leaning toward thinking the earth is within its own little cycle of heating and cooling.

Whats interesting is that global warming is supposed to bring Europe much colder, and more severe, winters. Sorts seems like a contradiction.

 

[jsharp]

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Originally posted by brianl703:

quote:

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Originally posted by Al:
What is in debate is what is causing it.

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I think it's the underground coal fire in Centralia, PA myself.

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I saw something the other day about a huge underground coal fire in China that has been burning for years. We're talking about thousands of square miles.

The article stated it generated more CO2 than all of the autos in the US.

I need to find the link.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

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China, for instance, is burning over an area more than 3,000 miles wide and almost 450 miles long.

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That, co-incidentally happens to be the size of the region of China where the coal fields are. I seriosuly doubt tha the whole region is on fire

It sounds more like sloppy reporting on the part of the magazine and non-critical thinking on the part of everyone who has commented on that article here, myself included.

There are big coal fires in China and they are a big problem, no need for the press to outrageously exagerate the magnitude of the problem.

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We may have to blame the Dutch scientists too, not just the press. If you add "dutch" to the "china coal fires" search term you get lots of hits on google that talk about some dutch studies of these fires. I'm not exactly sure why they'd be so interested in them.

So I agree, it seems like far too large an area. But I have no idea how we'd find out exactly how large it really is.

 

[jsharp]

Found one link that mentions it. If you google Chinese coal fires you can get lots more.
http://www.post-gazette.com/healthscience/20030215coalenviro4p4.asp

Concern and action is needed, he said, because of the environmental impact -- especially of mega-fires burning in India, China and elsewhere in Asia. One coal fire in northern China, for instance, is burning over an area more than 3,000 miles wide and almost 450 miles long.

And -

The Chinese fires also make a big, hidden contribution to global warming through the greenhouse effect, scientists said. Each year they release 360 million tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, as much as all the cars and light trucks in the United States.

So it was almost as much CO2 as US autos, not more. But 450 X 3000 miles is one big fire...

 

[Pablo]

Holy KRAP????? Didn't know they are so HUGE!!

Where are all the USA enviromentalkyotoists on this?

 

[joee12]

Last year they were blaming the hurricanes on warmer waters due to global warming. Now they are saying that it has been a slow hurricane season due to cooler waters, I don't think that "they" know what they are talking about. IMO the "they" have to blame it on something, so I guess Global Warming is the culprit now. 10 years ago all the weather people talked about was "El Nino" and "La Nina" and how it affected the hurricanes, I guess they are off that bandwagon, go figure

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Let's all meet at The Weather Channel.

 

[Zee1]

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Because oceans are cooler this year!
I guess it's inconvenient to consider this when someone wants to ring the global warming bell.

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because global warming is melting the ice caps and cooling the ocean.... see it can be turned any way you want, if you ask people if the days seem warmer than last year they will say yes... just look at all the record highs this year, something is going on....next year will be even hotter.... I see people burning alive by the suns heat and screaming "theres no such thing as global warming" as they burn to death.... DUD - denial until death.

 

[JavaMan]

"I see people burning alive by the suns heat and screaming "theres no such thing as global warming" as they burn to death.... DUD - denial until death."

I have never seen anything like this. I live in South Texas and we get some pretty hot weather. To see someone screaming as they burn to death due to the suns heat must be pretty frightening. Was this in this country or elsewhere?