Japanese companies aren't as good !

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Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Japanese stuff peaked around 99
No it didn't. To this day, as an example, no car matches the Lexus LS460 on the combination of build, reliability and overall performance. Nothing measures up to the overall goodness of the Fit, the Camry, the Accord, the CRV and the Civic. The Mazda Miata is unmatched also. What happened is that products sourced in Japan got incredibly expensive. Japanese-brand cars are still killing it around the world. There is absolutely no evidence of a "peak in 1999."


The domestics still can't build a compact, sub-compact, or a minivan that compares to those from Japan...
 
Originally Posted By: grampi

The domestics still can't build a compact, sub-compact, or a minivan that compares to those from Japan...


The 5/6 speed Fiestas and Focuses are good. Avoid the DCT. Plenty of examples with 2-300k on them.
There are plenty of Cavaliers with many miles on them. Dreadful but relatively reliable.
The Cruze is a solid choice.
The Vart, err Dart - avoid - easy to do as it's history.

I don't know I'd put the Transmission Eating, engine destroying Odyssey up there as good....

Nothing really special about Honda/Toyota. Good marketing and rose colored glasses. They break just as much as a Ford or a GM.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08

Nothing really special about Honda/Toyota. Good marketing and rose colored glasses. They break just as much as a Ford or a GM.


Factual data says otherwise.
 
Originally Posted By: KGMtech
The root of the Takata problem was they were in trouble financially BEFORE they started to market the new chemistry ignitor that made for lower priced airbags; price advantage of $2-3 USD per car. Takata sales grew with the new improved pricing, however their downstream risk also grew because the new chemistry was much less stable.

The OEM's that became interested in the price savings did not dig deeper to find out why the new chemistry was not being adopted by other air bag makers? hmmmm.... that sounds weird? The world doesn't have very many airbag makers...3-4 tops, it would not have been difficult for someone at GM / Honda / Nissan to call the technical department of Autoliv, or TRW and ask them about the new chemical that Takata was proposing? had they considered this chemical? why not?

Keep in mind the single biggest driver for Engineering Changes for Automotive is cost savings. If you reset your compass to this point, all the results fall into place.


Nice summary.
I wish the news services offered such a concise summary...
 
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: itguy08

Nothing really special about Honda/Toyota. Good marketing and rose colored glasses. They break just as much as a Ford or a GM.


Factual data says otherwise.


+1
 
And yet, Toyota and Honda are the 1-2 punch of automotive reliability. They remain in those positions year after year. With no decline in statistical performance.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: grampi

The domestics still can't build a compact, sub-compact, or a minivan that compares to those from Japan...


The 5/6 speed Fiestas and Focuses are good. Avoid the DCT. Plenty of examples with 2-300k on them.
There are plenty of Cavaliers with many miles on them. Dreadful but relatively reliable.
The Cruze is a solid choice.
The Vart, err Dart - avoid - easy to do as it's history.

I don't know I'd put the Transmission Eating, engine destroying Odyssey up there as good....

Nothing really special about Honda/Toyota. Good marketing and rose colored glasses. They break just as much as a Ford or a GM.


The Focus isn't bad, not really buying that Fiestas are that good though, and there aren't many of either with 2-300K.

Cavaliers are cheap recycle-mobiles...they may go quite a few miles, but who can stand to drive them that long?

The Cruze is probably the best domestic compact, but the verdict is still out on its long term reliability.

As far as minivans go, Ford and GM just gave up on that segment, and the Chrysler isn't nearly as good as any of the Japanese makes.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
sensationalist nonsense.

+2
The OP should start a thread or two that makes sense.


Since we cannot control the postings on an open board I prefer to simply say that he seems to be rather desperate to find a reason to start a thread.

Seems many folks here besides the OP are somewhat eager to jump on a bandwagon. And perusing the Net too much can lead to delusional behavior! Every large volume car maker makes lemons. The key to Toyota's "legendary reputation" is good marketing and servicing the lemons that do get out. I've never heard of any car maker replacing/rebuilding engines with over 200k miles on them like my friends Forerunner! Toyota has avoided many recalls this way.

Many other companies could learn something here. If they promptly serviced their issues correctly with buy backs and/or competent service no one would complain.
 
Japan has some very good stuff and some pretty horrible stuff, it really depends on what you buy. I personally wouldn't trust a Japanese software company's product until it is proven otherwise, they are not very good at taking risk and fixing things, but rather just patching on top of patches, or leave a problem as is rather than fixing it.

Even in the same industry there are very good to very horrible products between different Japanese companies (Sony vs Akai, Toyota vs Mitsubishi, etc).
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08


I don't know I'd put the Transmission Eating, engine destroying Odyssey up there as good....



Now-now, let's not allow facts to get in the way...
smile.gif



I own a Mitsubishi Outlander, base model with 4wd/AWD. Still on the fence about quality. I did pick it up for a steal, as in, the absolute cheapest 4wd CUV I could find. Plenty to troll around in snow squalls and pull the 14' deep and wide out of the water, anyways.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
sensationalist nonsense.

+2
The OP should start a thread or two that makes sense.


Since we cannot control the postings on an open board I prefer to simply say that he seems to be rather desperate to find a reason to start a thread.

Seems many folks here besides the OP are somewhat eager to jump on a bandwagon. And perusing the Net too much can lead to delusional behavior! Every large volume car maker makes lemons. The key to Toyota's "legendary reputation" is good marketing and servicing the lemons that do get out. I've never heard of any car maker replacing/rebuilding engines with over 200k miles on them like my friends Forerunner! Toyota has avoided many recalls this way.

Many other companies could learn something here. If they promptly serviced their issues correctly with buy backs and/or competent service no one would complain.

Why do you think I am desperate ?

I asked a very simple question and no respond: "Do I need permission from any of you to post any subject in this sub-forum ?"

I said before and I am repeating: This is "General and Off Topic" sub-forum, any member can post anything he/she thinks it is interesting, as long as the thread is not 1 of the 3 prohibit subjects: Politic, Religious and Sex.

I also said that if you don't like the subject then don't participate, nobody forces you to read and/or post anything in the thread you don't like.

Until the rule is changed, such as "boring subject is prohibited" I will continue post whatever I think is interesting. Participating in my post is optional, nobody forces you to read/participate my post(s).
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Japan had great quality in the 70's?

Where does OP get his information?

Not with automotive, they had great quality with consumer electronics(reel-to-reel tape deck, receiver, cassette ...) and small appliances.
 
Originally Posted By: heynow
Wow, what a thread title.
Generalize much?

Companies is plural, correct ?
Takata air bag company and Mitsubishi automotive company are 2 companies, correct ? 2 is not singular, 2 is plural. Takata is a Japanese company, correct ? Mitsubishi is a Japanese company, correct ? These two are Japanese companies, correct ? That why I titled it "Japanese companies"

It isn't generalized at all. These 2 companies just pull the whole country down.

These 2 "Japanese companies" actions were totally unacceptable. Reduce cost to get more contracts is one thing, doing so with potentially killing your customers is reprehensible. Error/mistake in car design/manufacture/test is one thing, intentionally cheating the test to show better gas mileage to sell to unsuspecting customers is worse than robbing the bank.
 
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Every large volume car maker makes lemons. The key to Toyota's "legendary reputation" is good marketing and servicing the lemons that do get out. I've never heard of any car maker replacing/rebuilding engines with over 200k miles on them like my friends Forerunner! Toyota has avoided many recalls this way.

Many other companies could learn something here. If they promptly serviced their issues correctly with buy backs and/or competent service no one would complain.


I don't really follow Toyota, but didn't it take a class action lawsuit for them to fix all their rusty truck frames?
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Japan had great quality in the 70's?

Where does OP get his information?

Not with automotive, they had great quality with consumer electronics(reel-to-reel tape deck, receiver, cassette ...) and small appliances.


You are correct there, but all of your previous examples were automotive. In your post, you said:

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Japanese companies gained the trust of consumers with high quality products since mid-late 1970's until few years ago. Now I don't know if I can trust "Made in Japan" anymore.


What exactly comes out of Japan today that you don't like?

I can only think of a few electronics fitting your examples that are made in Japan anymore. Yamaha certainly isn't what it used to be either, but they are mostly if not all made in China now. I have a Yamaha a receiver that cooked its HDMI board in under 2 years, get repaired under warranty and fail again in about a year once out of warranty. It has a 3.5mm jack hookup and the radio still works so it's now a garage stereo. Meanwhile, my mid 80's Yamaha receiver runs like a top, but it obsolete on anything with component cables. (Which is literally everything I have except a Dreamcast and a PS2.)

Sure, they gained the consumer's trust, but it's hard to blame Japanese craftsmanship on something that is now produced in China.
 
I've had pretty good luck with Japanese vehicles, I'd say. I'll never forget the sound of the doors shutting on the 1990 Accord I inherited from my grandparents - just like a vault. I even got to where I knew the sound of those doors closing from across a parking lot. Didn't even have to look up to confirm it was a '90-'93 Accord. Same with the starter motor sound. Wonderful build quality and refinement in those cars. Way ahead of their time. Even the A/C control panel - there's not a car on the road today with a superior design and layout, IMHO. The cars don't look outdated even today - and you still see MANY of them on the road. Keep in mind, the newest examples of that car are now 23 years old. Personally, I do think build quality of most Japanese stuff peaked somewhere in the 1990s. In my opinion, it was in the early 1990s. My sister had a 1995 Accord with the V6. It wasn't half the car that 1990 was, in terms of solidness and refinement.

Before that, I had a 1987 Maxima. That was a very good car, too - just not as refined or solid as the Accord (that's still true of Nissan vs. Honda and Toyota, today, in general). I did have an oil change place leave the oil pan drain bolt out once on that Max. Ran it with no oil for a few miles before I knew what was up (I was 18 and that was before I learned anything about cars and engines, and didn't know to check for oil pressure, noises, etc.). Once the crankcase was refilled, the knocking went away, and I drove the car for tens of thousands of miles before finally selling it.

In 2004, I got a new 2004 Accord (4-banger, 5-speed stick). That was a great car, though the doors didn't sound as good when you shut them as that 1990. And, IMHO, the brake rotors and the clutch weren't heavy-duty enough. But that's probably still true with Hondas today.

Then, in 2007, I bought my new 2007 Tacoma that is in my sig. That's been a nearly trouble-free vehicle. In 9 years and over 185,000 mi, I can list everything that's gone wrong with that truck easily in 1 sentence, and it's all very minor: Faulty door microswitch, bearing in u-joint failed around 75K (easily replaced by me), faulty solder in overhead temp/compass display (easily re-soldered), bad bearing in idler pulley around 150K (another easy fix), broken latch on center console, and that's about it! Not even a CEL. I call that pretty good, and it's definitely a testament to Toyota quality for me.

My WRX is brand-new but it's now been at the dealer for over 2 mos for a squealing noise it's making on boost/full throttle that they can't or won't devote the resources to, to track down. After multiple conversations with the service writer and one call to the service manager, I'm now going to be forced to call Subaru. But I don't consider this latest experience to be representative of Japanese vehicles. I'm still a Japanese vehicle guy through and through.
 
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