SETI Investigating Signal

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Originally Posted By: Ethan1
It's physics, not politics. Google "the kardashev scale". Read a book. Watch a YouTube video. We live in the first period in human history where it's easy to educate yourself about pretty much anything for free.

Do you have something against solar energy?

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Sounds like the epitome of that topic that shall (shell ???) not be discussed, trapping a sun's worth of energy and beaiming it at a planet.

As to the premise that it was aimed especially at us to tell us something...that would involve prescentience or something to tell them where to point the thing, or some other faster than light communication to send some regular type of communication.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
I weep for our journalists. I heard a radio program today where they were suggesting that it would be nice for the first inhabitants of Mars to have a good broadband connection to Earth. I really hope it was some very dry, subtle joke that I didn't exactly get. If they were serious, they better figure out how bad the latency might be. Yeesh. In fairness, they weren't even science journalists, and it wasn't a call in show, so no one tore them a new one.


LOL. They'd be better off building their own internet and connecting with broadband to that...
 
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Astro14
A lot of fantasy and speculation in that "news" article...

A Dyson shell is, of course, an interesting concept. But, they sure went off on a tangent there, didn't they?
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Yeah, if you want to talk about Dyson Spheres do a search for alien mega structure where they talk about Tabby's star and how it's gotten dimmer over the last 100 years. Someone might be building a Dyson's sphere or swarm. Jury is still out.

http://www.space.com/33813-alien-megastructure-mystery-tabbys-star.html



The Commonwealth Saga is great fiction which includes a Dyson Sphere, it certainly deserves a movie or TV series.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Kardashev's scale is physics now?


Kardashev's Theory and Scale are pure speculation using some nit-picked physics.


Quote:
“The signal conceivably fits the profile for an intentional transmission from an extraterrestrial source,” said Alan Boyle, author of The Case for Pluto who reported the story for Geekwire. “In any case, the blip is interesting enough to merit discussion by those who specialize in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.”

The signal’s strength indicates that if it in fact came from a isotropic beacon, the power source would have to be built by a Kardashev Type II civilization. (The Kardashev scale is used to determine the progress of a civilization’s technological development by measuring how much energy was used to transmit an interstellar message.) An ‘Isotropic’ beacon means a communication source emitting a signal with equal power in all directions while promoting signal strength throughout travel.


How could we possibly know the "profile" of any other civilization?

Seriously folks, people need to educate themselves in astrophysics and electronics communications theory.

Electronics Communications Theory:

What is the spectrum of these signals, their bandwidth, their potential to carry intelligent signals, and what mode are they using [CW, AM, PM, FM, Digital (PSK, QPSK, OCDFM, etc)], what language are they using?

Could we actually understand their mode and language? Highly improbable!


Astrophysics:

It is theorized that various processes in star and interstellar gas formation or dissolution can produce all kinds of periodic and non-periodic signals with all kinds of Electromagnetic spectrum.
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Kardashev's scale is physics now?


Yes, astrophysics is physics. Yes, storing energy is physics.
 
Editing Timeout:

Kardashev's Theory and Scale are pure speculation using some nit-picked physics, as is unfortunately, much of science today.
 
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Whats the point. We know the universe has 10E 23 Suns so there are probably at least 10E 15+ planets with intelligent life. Problem is 90% of them have already ceased to exist in this point.

I think studying the universe, Dark Energy, Dark Matter, trying to find additional forces is great. Its pure science. But looking for extra-terrestrials....Oh well.
 
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Originally Posted By: Garak
I weep for our journalists. I heard a radio program today where they were suggesting that it would be nice for the first inhabitants of Mars to have a good broadband connection to Earth. I really hope it was some very dry, subtle joke that I didn't exactly get. If they were serious, they better figure out how bad the latency might be. Yeesh. In fairness, they weren't even science journalists, and it wasn't a call in show, so no one tore them a new one.


They will have broadband connection alright, but not for you to browse the web. If we end up on Mars the 1st group would likely be doing researches and need a way to beam back data they collect. There is no UPS or FedEx to haul magnetic tapes or hard drives, so broadband connection is the only option.
 
It's going to be basically like a walkie talkie: one way only, then after the message is received on earth a reply can be sent. I haven't checked the distance, but latency is likely minutes....
 
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Surrounding a whole star to capture its energy seems stupid.

I would think they'd have matter/antimatter energy production which is more efficient than fusion.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Surrounding a whole star to capture its energy seems stupid.

I would think they'd have matter/antimatter energy production which is more efficient than fusion.


Absolutely not. Capturing already existing energy is always going to be far more efficient than creating the reactants in the first place.

Where are you getting the antimatter in this universe?
 
Quote:
Where are you getting the antimatter in this universe?


Black holes, where else?

But why ask such a question? Somehow the idea of producing a device not only capable of surrounding the entire star, but also capturing its energy seems possible to you, but harvesting the antimatter raises question? That's funny right there.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Quote:
Where are you getting the antimatter in this universe?

Black holes, where else?

But why ask such a question? Somehow the idea of producing a device not only capable of surrounding the entire star, but also capturing its energy seems possible to you, but harvesting the antimatter raises question? That's funny right there.


My comments to rattle Turtle's cage didn't have anything to do with the mechanics of the energy collection, only the thermodynamics. AFAIK black holes are not made of antimatter otherwise they would annihilate themselves as they accrete normal matter in the universe. If you need antimatter then you have to make it, and that is a very energy intensive process (m=E/c^2).

Every joule you get out of the resulting matter/antimatter reaction would have to have been put into the antimatter when you created it - plus production losses of course. It would be like making firewood in a particle accelerator for your campfire rather than going and cutting down a tree that has already sequestered the carbon.
 
I used to do SETI at home back in the college days. Those days you really just waste your CPU cycles if you don't do anything.

Today I'd stay away from it. It is likely using electricity for heat instead of anything, and the probability of it doing good in general for our society is lower than its damage via more electricity use.

Now if someone is paying me to run my PC for their cloud computing works at AWS price, sign me up please.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
They will have broadband connection alright, but not for you to browse the web. If we end up on Mars the 1st group would likely be doing researches and need a way to beam back data they collect. There is no UPS or FedEx to haul magnetic tapes or hard drives, so broadband connection is the only option.

Absolutely. The journalists, however, were talking about a way to watch Youtube videos or be in instant contact with one's friends or family or play online games. That's another matter altogether. Telemetry and mission data were far above these journalists' pay grade.
wink.gif


Like Jetronic said, they'd need a essentially a preloaded internet up there, particularly if they want instant gratification. They won't have the freedom to go Googling down whatever rabbit hole suits their fancy on any given day, unless they're okay with several minutes latency.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I used to do SETI at home back in the college days. Those days you really just waste your CPU cycles if you don't do anything.

Today I'd stay away from it. It is likely using electricity for heat instead of anything, and the probability of it doing good in general for our society is lower than its damage via more electricity use.

Now if someone is paying me to run my PC for their cloud computing works at AWS price, sign me up please.

Yup,I remember those SETI at home days.
grin2.gif
I always wondered if I was wasting more electricity myself.
 
I've got a step-dad who worked for NASA in Florida for awhile.
His superintendent has been with NASA for many years.When I asked my step dad,what he thought of the chance of others out there in space,he said no doubt there is. He told me when people asked the superintendent about this,he would simply say,have no doubt,we are not alone as well.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Quote:
Where are you getting the antimatter in this universe?


Black holes, where else?

But why ask such a question? Somehow the idea of producing a device not only capable of surrounding the entire star, but also capturing its energy seems possible to you, but harvesting the antimatter raises question? That's funny right there.


Somehow I think you're somewhat disconnected from reality and science fiction. Black holes exist, but it's not like there's one right next to our planet we could use. While there's lots of possible theories for faster than light travel, there's a good possibility that's a real limit. If you're an advanced civilization that hasn't figured out FTL, then you're just stuck with whatever is in the neighborhood. And yeah, I didn't really understand how you'd use black holes to get antimatter anyway, it can be created, but requires a tremendous amount of energy. The Dyson's sphere or swarm just calls for you to use self replicating machines and to use up the matter that's in your local solar system. A project of that magnitude would be huge, but still technically doable. Basically you're putting solar panels in orbit and around the star. Eventually there are so many, it's a swarm, then the end stage might be a sphere.

Quoting black holes and antimatter, that's more theory and technology that may or may not even exist.
 
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