2017 Harley Davidson Milwaukee-Eight 107 Released

[DuckRyder]

So, I still haven't had time to really dig in, but few things:

Apparently this is the first time the motor company has both rubber mounted and counter balanced an engine, the current Twin Cam has a "B" version used in Softails which is balanced because they are rigid mount, the other models use rubber mounting and no balance. It is unclear if this will enable a single version of the engine to be used in all bikes.

Even the standard 107 has oil routed through the heads similar to how the twin cooled engine circulates water.

The engine has 2 spark plugs per cylinder, and individual cylinder timing control based on knock sensing (not sure if the latest TwinCam can do that or not).

Harley says the valves never need adjustment, which is probably good because there doesn't appear to be any way to do it....

Wondering if the Sportster gets a new design next....

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
How often does a FI system actually need any service?


That's just it, they don't...and neither do the "high tech" engines...HDs better be easy to work on because they need to be worked on...


FI systems are generally very reliable. But they do occasionally have issues. Anyone diagnosing and fixing them will need to know what they are doing, just as anyone competently fixing a Carburetor would.

 

[Robenstein]

I know more people who have had carb issues than FI issues with their bikes (and cars). It has evolved into a very reliable fuel delivery system over the past 20 years.

There are lots of "high tech" makes that are usually less reliable and more demanding/expensive to maintain than Harley ....think Italian bikes and some of the Teutonic persuasion. I can also think of several OHC and liquid cooled engines that call for valve checks around the 10k to 15k area. All bikes and makes tend to have their idiosyncrasies.

The fact is...Harley does what it does well. Other makers have their specialty niche. I wish there was less fanboys in the bike world that get their panties in a bunch when someone likes a bike different from theirs.

Almost every one of my complains about Harleys come from their sometimes less than honest marketing and not their machines. If I wanted a nostalgic big v twin cruiser that was air cooled, had a good dealer network, and tons of aftermarket and factory parts support (something many of their competitors sadly lack on models that are older)...I would get a Harley.

 

[gman2304]

My 2008 Suzuki DL1000 needed the valves checked/adjusted every 15,000 miles, per the manual. And it was a bear of a job.

 

[Jarlaxle]

How many times did any actually need top be adjusted? Be honest.

 

[gman2304]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GMhssf_mFI

^I know of at least one^
I sold my DL1000 before the 15,000 mile check/adjust recommendation. Enjoy the video...it lasts about 1 1/2 hours. I said it was a bear!

 

[Robenstein]

I know the Triumph Thunderbird (large liquid cooled OHC twin) calls for checks at 12k miles. And most people report the exhausts do need adjusted.

My smaller OHC air and oil cooled parallel twin (with factory cooler) needed 4 out of the eight valves adjusted at 12k.

If I recall the liquid cooled OHC V Rod had 10k mile checks when they first hit the market. Harley has them to 20k now i believe, but they are not fun to do, because this is the engine that needs to have a motor mount taken loose and the engine tilted to get spark plugs in and out on that back cylinder.

And well there is the Ducati Desmo systems which are known for being not particularly cheap or fun to have done.

Like I said...all bikes have their idiosyncrasies. No one makes a perfect bike. Research and buy what bike fits you the best all around and ride.....and let others ride what they want. Live and let live sort of thing.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The interval is 14,500 for my Burgman...but there are many owners that report having 50,000+ miles, and have not had to touch the valves.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I like to work on my own stuff, and H-D is def a simple, easier to work on design. The top end can be rebuilt with the engine in the frame.


Easier than... what? A fully faired sport bike? How often you need to rebuild the top-end? Newer OHV, shim-under bucket, WC engines coming out of Japan only require a 30k check of clearance (FZ for example). Rarely do they shift in the first 50-80k.

This thread is definitely heading OT


There are a lot of guys who put big bore kits on their own bikes as well as cams, etc. and do the work themselves. If you have mechanical aptitude, a bike can be a lot of fun.

 

[alarmguy]

Looks like Harley hit it out of the ballpark again, first the new touring frames, then the Rushmore and now with this engine.
As they state, they did all they could do with the 103 twin cam, this new engine is designed for the next ten years.
I have no doubt but to believe them, they have been on a winning streak for a long time now.

Yes, 2 plugs per cylinder, more air running through the engine, cooler running engine. Liquid cooled heads using either water/coolant or oil.
Counter balance shaft for those who do not like the engine shake. New shocks for the Rushmores, front and rear for a smoother ride, I like my RK ride but others felt it was too harsh.

Gosh, I was thinking my 14 Road King would be my last bike maybe ... but ... but ... hmmmm ... will see what 2019 holds or 2018?? *L*

Its going to be dangerous for me to be walking in Harley dealerships, I think HD has another grand slam on its hands.
Good for them, I can see them moving a lot of new bikes with the new engine.

My 14 Road King has been rock solid, Im sold.
Two weeks ago my bike turned 2 years old. 14,000 miles now on it.
I only took it to the dealer one time in those 2 years and 14,000 miles.
That was only a few weeks ago before the warranty expired.

IN the two years time, all I needed (and didnt even really need it) under warranty was a new front spark plug wire, I wanted it changed, as it was slightly chaffed because it was rubbing on the bottom of the gas tank or frame. They replaced the $8.00 part under warranty, also had the saddlebag latches replaced under recall. I hope the new engine proves to be as good and I am sure it will. Like anything new, I am sure some bugs will turn up.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Of course it should be mentioned that the Harley mill is now going to be more "modern" than the Indian Thunderstroke 111 which is a two valve OHV engine. Now I call out Harley and those that defend them with an almost jingoistic fervor right or wrong. However, I think we should look at its most direct American competitor in the Nostalgia department.

About the only thing the Indian has over the Harley now is a few cubes of displacement and unit construction (some love and some hate, but it is more modern)

I do have to give Indian the win in aesthetics though, that 111 is a darn pretty engine.


I agree, Polaris Indian seems like a well designed bike, Im not crazy about the look but the fit and finish seems "Harley Like".
I checked out the new Springfield which is made to compete with the Road King. I wont knock it if you like the look.
The unknown with the Polaris Indian is if they will be able to compete and survive. They only sell a fraction of the bike HD does and bikes are only a fraction of Polaris Industries business.

Polaris tried desperately to compete with Harley using the Victory brand, Victory had fallen flat on its face for Polaris, meaning 20 years now and Victory still struggles to even turn a profit for Polaris, the line up is a mess. Its been talked about in the board room many times about killing the brand or selling it off.

So now they bought another name, Indian and are trying again. Lets hope they succeed. Looks like Harley is doing everything they can to not let them succeed.
I do think there is room in the market for both companies, as Japan, Yamaha, Honda, Kawaski has fully retreated from the large cruiser market, unable to compete, unable to sell large cruisers, all except the Goldwing. So it would be nice to see two American companies building and selling the only larger cruisers in the world or better said USA market.

Dont mistake my statement as being pro Harley or anti Polaris, just talking facts. People lay out a lot of money for these touring bikes and I would be uncomfortable doing that on a Polaris brand right now. I DO want them to survive, choice is good, competition is good. Back in 2012 I ALMOST bought a Victory Cross Roads, could have bought one of two offered to me by the dealer for a song and a dance, only to learn the reason why, Polaris killed the Cross Roads for 2013. They couldnt turn a profit on them, it was the competition for the Road King, I loved the bike but it fell on its face, so I could have bought that bike and found out month later it was no longer going to be made.
I could also, if I liked the look buy a new Polaris/Indian Springfield and sell my Road King, but who would do that now, knowing the Road King has a brand new state of the art engine, even more so compared to the big, lugging, hot Springfield.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I know more people who have had carb issues than FI issues with their bikes (and cars). It has evolved into a very reliable fuel delivery system over the past 20 years.

There are lots of "high tech" makes that are usually less reliable and more demanding/expensive to maintain than Harley ....think Italian bikes and some of the Teutonic persuasion. I can also think of several OHC and liquid cooled engines that call for valve checks around the 10k to 15k area. All bikes and makes tend to have their idiosyncrasies.

The fact is...Harley does what it does well. Other makers have their specialty niche. I wish there was less fanboys in the bike world that get their panties in a bunch when someone likes a bike different from theirs.

Almost every one of my complains about Harleys come from their sometimes less than honest marketing and not their machines. If I wanted a nostalgic big v twin cruiser that was air cooled, had a good dealer network, and tons of aftermarket and factory parts support (something many of their competitors sadly lack on models that are older)...I would get a Harley.


These days all the makes are far more reliable than in the past, including HDs. There really isn't any make that requires much in the way of maintenance these days, other than the usual, fluids, filters, and occasionally the plugs. Valve adjustments are necessary on some models, but in most cases, only a check is required. Generally speaking, HDs still require more maintenance than other makes, but even then, it's nothing that would be considered unacceptable. There are exceptions of course, but these days, reliability wouldn't even factor into my buying decision...I would take it for granted that any make is going to be more than acceptable in that department...

 

[DuckRyder]

Some good stuff in here.

First I heard V-Rod production ends in October.

Wish I could get Hard Candy Hot Rod Red hold the flames. (or with less goofy flames)

 

[donnyj08]

Interesting. Is this the first time they have had a 4 valve head?

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Interesting. Is this the first time they have had a 4 valve head?


Well, that depends. Are we talking just the air-cooled V-twins from the Motor Company, or do we include 4-valve heads from the aftermarket? What about the V-rod, or the VR1000 Superbike the Revolution engine was loosely based on?

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I know the Triumph Thunderbird (large liquid cooled OHC twin) calls for checks at 12k miles. And most people report the exhausts do need adjusted.

My smaller OHC air and oil cooled parallel twin (with factory cooler) needed 4 out of the eight valves adjusted at 12k.

If I recall the liquid cooled OHC V Rod had 10k mile checks when they first hit the market. Harley has them to 20k now i believe, but they are not fun to do, because this is the engine that needs to have a motor mount taken loose and the engine tilted to get spark plugs in and out on that back cylinder.

And well there is the Ducati Desmo systems which are known for being not particularly cheap or fun to have done.

Like I said...all bikes have their idiosyncrasies. No one makes a perfect bike. Research and buy what bike fits you the best all around and ride.....and let others ride what they want. Live and let live sort of thing.



I just found this, looks like another big plus for the new HD Touring engines. I didnt know Triumph Thunderbird required them, then again, as much as I was considering a Triumph a couple years back, never got that close to buying one I was considering, so never looked more close at the maintenance. I assume on the parallel twin, wouldnt it be much easier then the a VTWIN? Would make sense with both cylinder heads right up front?

ANYWAY, just like the HD Twin Cams, NO valve adjustments or checks on new Harley engines!

Valve adjustments always drove me nuts on my Metrics, Pain in the A** on a bike. One reason I bought my Road King when I did, as I didnt want to bother doing the valve check on my VStar 1300!
Its true, all bikes have their "thing" but no valve adjustments are a BIG buying reason for me. I always did my own, just do not trust bringing a bike in to a repair shop and it actually get done.

Here is the link to the source for the above

 

[rossn2]

Just be aware with the recent EPA ruling against HD (no more tuners) that the new bikes will be locked down and very little to no engines mods! Heard, only a factory HD Stage 1 download and that's it!

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: rossn2
Just be aware with the recent EPA ruling against HD (no more tuners) that the new bikes will be locked down and very little to no engines mods! Heard, only a factory HD Stage 1 download and that's it!



I have a 2007 Dyna Glide with the 96" Twin Cam engine, and the guy who owns my local bike shop (Departure Bike Works in Richmond, VA) said the vast majority of bikes with the Delphi injection don't need a tuner for stage one. You can install an S&S breather AND slip-ons w/o any mixture adjustments and it runs fine. I did these mods on my bike and the spark plugs still look good without any popping and backfiring; no lean burn symptoms, just a normal looking plug. This defies internet hearsay about needing a tune with both pipes and intake modifications. The new engines are probably the same, esp considering H-D knows they won't be tuned but still most people put pipes and an intake on their bikes. H-D likes to sell tuners that aren't really necessary.

 

[LoneRanger]

How much will MSRP increase I wonder. Glad to see HD updating their engine and no add'l weight. I may need to look into a 2017 Road King next year.

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Interesting. Is this the first time they have had a 4 valve head?


Well, that depends. Are we talking just the air-cooled V-twins from the Motor Company, or do we include 4-valve heads from the aftermarket? What about the V-rod, or the VR1000 Superbike the Revolution engine was loosely based on?


I had forgotten about the V-Rod bike. The video highlighted the fact that the new engine used a 4 valve head. I wasn't sure if this was a first.

i guess i should say is this the first time they have had a 4 valve head on the air cooled v-twin?