Brand perception

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I'm a new member and, even though I've been reading these forums for the past decade, I've been spending a lot of time on here since I joined.

This is probably the sort of question that will cause an uproar, but I'm wondering why certain brands are perceived in a certain way, and if my perceptions and prejudices have any basis in reality.

There are certain oil brands that I think are "good," and brands that I think/feel are just sort of labels to sell generic oil. I'll list a few, in each category. Overall, I would just like to know what people think about this list.

I don't firmly believe any of what I'm about to list here. This is just my overall perception or prejudice. Again, I don't know what I'm talking about, and am very aware of that. I don't know of any oil of the top of my head that I really think is "bad," or that I wouldn't use for a certain number of miles.

Very good/great oil brands:

Redline
Liqui-Moly
Motul
Total
Eneos
Amsoil (even though their marketing systems irritates me)
Pentosin

Very good oil, but average consumer perception: (These are the main oils I use)

Mobil
Castrol
Pennzoil
Shell/Rotella

Generic/just a brand name used to sell oil, but still probably good oil:

Royal Purple (Probably because it seems like a "boutique" oil that's sold at Walmart)
Quaker State
Valvoline
STP
All the various store brands, Supertech, NAPA, etc
 
STP, Quaker State, Valvoline, Lucas, etc., in my oppinion, are subconsciously associated with old fashioned pushrod low-tech engines. I even used to lump Castrol in that bucket as well (thanks to John Force haha). The word Germany has a certain connotation to it, which is usually associated with "superior engineering," so that's probably German oils are regarded as "great." Also, you see ENEOS, Total, and Motul on the side of high-tech racecars like DTM, not good 'ol boy pushrod stock cars, so they get lumped into the "great" bucket as well.

That's my stab at this.
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
STP, Quaker State, Valvoline, Lucas, etc., in my oppinion, are subconsciously associated with old fashioned pushrod low-tech engines. I even used to lump Castrol in that bucket as well (thanks to John Force haha). The word Germany has a certain connotation to it, which is usually associated with "superior engineering," so that's probably German oils are regarded as "great." Also, you see ENEOS, Total, and Motul on the side of high-tech racecars like DTM, not good 'ol boy pushrod stock cars, so they get lumped into the "great" bucket as well.

That's my stab at this.


You're definitely right about most of this. Part of the reason I've thought Castrol is one of the "better" oils is that my brother, years ago, was a mechanic in the army. According to him, at the time, the Humvees used Castrol oil. Which, when I was a kid, made Castrol sound like the best oil on earth. Then, later, seeing "Castrol" on BMW oil caps helped drill in that perception.

Motul and Redline are the only two on that list that I think might actually be very good/great oils. The rest I can easily admit are probably just perception/prejudice on my part.
 
Now, how would you rate Quaker State on the lower end, while Shell in the middle tier?

The top tier you list is correct in that it's a bunch of oils that hardly anyone in North America can buy without going on some sort of expedition or making phone calls or online orders, not to mention spending big. If that's what makes a great oil, you've hit the jackpot with that list.
 
There are some gems in every category you've listed as well as some oils that may not be worth the price premium they command.
It's also a matter of horses for courses.
Red Line appears to be a superior oil in certain venues, not necessarily including stock engines on the street, for example.
For most of us in our daily drivers, any oil complying with the appropriate spec would be just fine.
Marketing is all about perception and it's likely that Mobil Super Syn would do as well as M1 in almost any case and the same could be said of QSUD versus PP or Ultra.
You categories may bring some disagreement as many regard Valvoline as a very good brand of oil while a smaller group will defend Royal Purple with great vigor.
Brands are perceived as they are largely due to marketing as well as product positioning. The average consumer likes to think that they're buying value when they pay more for a product although this isn't always or maybe even often the case.
Me, I look for low price deals on known good oils and other maintenance supplies. If M1 is ten bucks a quart after stacking store deals with the MIR, I'm happy, but I'd be just as happy were the same deal available for PP, Edge or Synpower.
 
It's my understanding that Motul and Redline, probably Amsoil as well, are all very good oils. Outside of that, I really don't know why I would even rate Quaker State below Mobil 1 or Castrol. I can actually get Redline and Amsoil at an independent car parts store that's roughly 10 miles from my house, but I've never used their motor oils. It doesn't seem worth the price if I'm not willing to go past 5k miles. I've used other Redline and Amsoil fluids. Never Motul, yet.

For some reason, that's my perception of Quaker State. I'm probably only rating Pennzoil higher because they're now the maker of BMW oil and I've seen a lot of great stuff about Pennzoil Platinum on here. Pennzoil is made by Shell, right?

I'm only rating Shell higher because of Rotella T6, which seems to be a very good oil based on UOAs I've seen.

But, like I said, I'm not committed to any of this. I'm interested to see how other people feel about these brands. I'm not an expert, and neither are most of the people I've seen on car forums. I'm hoping to learn a bit here. Unlike most of the people I've interacted with in car forums, who know everything. (They know nothing.)

I've mostly used Rotella T6 and different variants of Mobil 1 over the years. Usually M1 0W40 or T6 in my turbo SAAB, M1 10w30 HM in my Volvo, and I'm currently using M1 10W40 in my BMW because it's burning oil. I've never gone over 5-6k on a change. I'm hoping to learn a bit more about oils so that I can feel confident doing more than 5k.

I'm also very interested to know how people perceive oils brands, as it's been very difficult to find anything very concrete about these different oils and how they actually compare to each other. What I've seen, overall, is that most oils are pretty good as long as you don't keep them in the car too long. Most synthetics, it seems, can go to roughly 10k miles.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You categories may bring some disagreement as many regard Valvoline as a very good brand of oil while a smaller group will defend Royal Purple with great vigor.
Brands are perceived as they are largely due to marketing as well as product positioning. The average consumer likes to think that they're buying value when they pay more for a product although this isn't always or maybe even often the case.
Me, I look for low price deals on known good oils and other maintenance supplies. If M1 is ten bucks a quart after stacking store deals with the MIR, I'm happy, but I'd be just as happy were the same deal available for PP, Edge or Synpower.


I've seen a lot of love and respect for Valvoline here, which I'm pretty interested in now. I've always seen Valvoline as something on par with Walmart Supertech, but a name brand. I've also seen a lot of respect for Supertech here.

I just bought 2 5 quart jugs of M1 HM 10w40 for about $49, and submitted the rebate for $22 total. Which was the main reason I went with Mobil 1 over another high mileage synthetic.

I know next to nothing about Royal Purple. The boutique oil sold at Walmart image, combined with the fact that it's purple--it is purple, right?--made it seem like a gimmick to me. It might be better than Redline.
 
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Valvoline and MS5K and M1 are in my "opinion" very good. I know of not many "blends" like MaxLife that are safe to use in new/newer vehicles
 
Originally Posted By: car51
Valvoline and MS5K and M1 are in my "opinion" very good. I know of not many "blends" like MaxLife that are safe to use in new/newer vehicles


I agree. I don't understand the idea behind synthetic blends at all. Something in-between for people who want more than conventional, but aren't willing to buy synthetic? It seems like pure marketing to me.
 
Interesting topic.

Most people's perceptions about oil are probably influenced by a mix of marketing (advertisements and motorsports sponsorships) and tradition (my daddy always used Brand X, so that's what I use), with some individual impressions thrown in. That's to say, a lot of oil decisions are probably based on emotion and myths. Most of mine were until I started reading at this site.

I grew up around CO-OP oil, because that's what we used on the farm. The same 15W-40 went in the tractors and the oil-burning Dodge pickup. I changed oil at the CO-OP station for awhile, and they used house brand oil unless customers asked for Pennzoil, which a few did. That and the extra cost made the yellow bottle seem like the "premium" alternative.

When I first bought oil for my first car, it was a case of Quaker State 10-40 from Wal-Mart, because of the lower price and the bottle design more than anything. The bottles at that time had a vented opening for easier pouring.

I had only seen Castrol used as a motorcycle oil until I was in college. Then I met somebody whose retired father used Castrol 20-50 in a 4-cylinder Escort, "because a 4-cyl needed a heavier oil." With that logic, I started using it in my Mopar slant-six, since a 225 was a small engine by V-8 standards. John Force probably had something to do with it, too. I did eventually switch that engine to Supertech 15-40. Every 2000 miles if I remember right, but that's a subject for another discussion.
 
Just noticed a huge brain gas event in the part of my post that you bolded.
I wrote "quart" when I meant "jug."
Too late for me to edit it.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Just noticed a huge brain gas event in the part of my post that you bolded.
I wrote "quart" when I meant "jug."
Too late for me to edit it.


I didn't even notice that. I just knew what you meant.
 
It seems that the common thread is that first group is hard to find and/or expensive. The second group is widely available and the company brands are strong. The lowest tier is a mish mash.

I'd put everything but store and no-name/unknown brands in the low tier. I'd probably put Total in the middle, and Eneos and Pentosin in the bottom because almost no one has heard of them.

The remainder go to the middle.

Royal Purple and Mobil 1 (not Mobil regular) go to the top. Maybe Idemitsu in the top too.
 
Originally Posted By: Rhymingmechanic
Interesting topic.

Most people's perceptions about oil are probably influenced by a mix of marketing (advertisements and motorsports sponsorships) and tradition (my daddy always used Brand X, so that's what I use), with some individual impressions thrown in. That's to say, a lot of oil decisions are probably based on emotion and myths. Most of mine were until I started reading at this site.

I grew up around CO-OP oil, because that's what we used on the farm. The same 15W-40 went in the tractors and the oil-burning Dodge pickup. I changed oil at the CO-OP station for awhile, and they used house brand oil unless customers asked for Pennzoil, which a few did. That and the extra cost made the yellow bottle seem like the "premium" alternative.

When I first bought oil for my first car, it was a case of Quaker State 10-40 from Wal-Mart, because of the lower price and the bottle design more than anything. The bottles at that time had a vented opening for easier pouring.

I had only seen Castrol used as a motorcycle oil until I was in college. Then I met somebody whose retired father used Castrol 20-50 in a 4-cylinder Escort, "because a 4-cyl needed a heavier oil." With that logic, I started using it in my Mopar slant-six, since a 225 was a small engine by V-8 standards. John Force probably had something to do with it, too. I did eventually switch that engine to Supertech 15-40. Every 2000 miles if I remember right, but that's a subject for another discussion.



Thanks for the in-depth response.

This is usually the kind of thing you hear when talking to anyone about oil. There's some kind of history to their decision. I'm only ever bothered by it when they get pushy about it or demand that I take their advice or else my engine will sludge/explode/implode/seize.

I'm at the point where, for my BMW at least, I would like to get the oil burning under control then switch to a proper LL-01 rated oil with a slightly better filter, for 10k intervals. I probably won't ever go to the recommended 15k. The more I learn, the more car manufacturer requirements are starting to seem like the best advice to follow. Taken with a grain of salt, of course. It seems obvious that car companies are trying to claim that their cars need the least maintenance and can go the most miles without changing fluids, and that they're not interested in you keeping their car for more than 100k miles before you get a new one.
 
I thought Valvoline synthetics/synblend would be pretty squarely in the middle category. Who knows?
 
And they are better in which way?? Certainly not the price way.. I see no hands on proof that any of those oils are superior to any other name brand synthetic in making engines last..

If they were much better in any way they would be all over T.V and the radio, Online and everywhere else saying they are the best oil out there.
And none of the other oil companies would be Lawyering up against them..
I got over 400,000 on an 83 oldsmonile mostly on pennzoil yellow bottle and it still ran good when it went to the junk yard if i was using a boutique oil brand i would have got the same results but my wallet would have been a lot lighter..Every oil has good points and bad points..
 
I lump oil into 2 groups: oil on sale vs oil not on sale.
If it has the API stamp that's good enough for me.
I am not brand loyal at all.
In my garage I have:
Ultra
Maxlife
Peak
Smittys
Castrol
Proline
All either free or got for less than a buck a qt.
Never had an oil related issue.
 
When I was a little kid I thought the Arnold Palmer Pennzoil yellow bottle tv commercials were cool because of the tractor. I think the yellow bottle is neat and I have heard at least one of my acquaintances say they like it too just because of the yellow bottle.
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
And they are better in which way?? Certainly not the price way.. I see no hands on proof that any of those oils are superior to any other name brand synthetic in making engines last..
Marketing works or a fool is born every minute.
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
And they are better in which way?? Certainly not the price way.. I see no hands on proof that any of those oils are superior to any other name brand synthetic in making engines last..

If they were much better in any way they would be all over T.V and the radio, Online and everywhere else saying they are the best oil out there.
And none of the other oil companies would be Lawyering up against them..
I got over 400,000 on an 83 oldsmonile mostly on pennzoil yellow bottle and it still ran good when it went to the junk yard if i was using a boutique oil brand i would have got the same results but my wallet would have been a lot lighter..Every oil has good points and bad points..


Redline, Amsoil and Motul are all very highly praised in various online forums, including this one. Redline and Amsoil are sort of boutique oils, so they're not big into massive advertising like Castrol and Mobil. Motul is french, so I don't know much about how they advertise.

I don't know that they're better than, say, Mobil 1, but they have a reputation of having great scores on various industry tests, and very good UOAs after racing, etc. I really can't say whether or not that translates to better performance in a daily driven car.

I've never used motor oil from any of those three, Redline, Amsoil or Motul. (Well, technically, I have used Amsoil motor oil. Once. It was on sale and the cheapest 10w40 synthetic at Napa when I stopped in because I was slightly low and had cleaned the car and forgot to put the oil back in the trunk.)
 
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