Looking For A New Car-CUV

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Now you sound like me. I'm no fan of Hondas QC


Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: dareo
Another reason to get a CR-V over HR-V is the excellent Accord 2.4 engine and CVT transmission combo that has been proven since late 2012 when 9th gens hit the market. The HR-V drivetrain may be just as durable but is not proven.


"Excellent" I guess if you ignore fuel dilution tendencies of the engine and the occasional reprogram of the CVT to keep it from destroying itself or annoying the driver. I'm a 2015 CRV owner and wouldn't buy again. Limited confidence in durability beyond warranty period.
 
I consider the accord 2.4 and CVT powertrain to be excellent since they have sold roughly 1 million of them in north america and the issues you find are very few and far between. Any DI engine will have some fuel dilution or valve deposits, that is the price of the higher performance.
 
Originally Posted By: metalone
I do travel up north often and 32 mpg is nice. What can you get on the Interstate keeping the speed around 65-70? Thanks!
Oh, BTW- do you have and high oil usage issues?


At only 65 mph and on the stocks wheels my stick shift Golf wagon would return 40 mpg, this was on 40 mile each way trips. If you keep your speed in that 65 to 70 range most new cars will get really good MPG.
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
Originally Posted By: metalone
I do travel up north often and 32 mpg is nice. What can you get on the Interstate keeping the speed around 65-70? Thanks!
Oh, BTW- do you have and high oil usage issues?


At only 65 mph and on the stocks wheels my stick shift Golf wagon would return 40 mpg, this was on 40 mile each way trips. If you keep your speed in that 65 to 70 range most new cars will get really good MPG.


I can definitely see this on a per trip basis, but what about average MPG tank to tank? No way that's 40mpg.
 
Originally Posted By: metalone
I do travel up north often and 32 mpg is nice. What can you get on the Interstate keeping the speed around 65-70? Thanks!
Oh, BTW- do you have and high oil usage issues?

Originally Posted By: JTK
You live in Florida, so I assume AWD is not needed. I was going to suggest a Subaru Forester, but don't see why you'd need that in FL. I average 32mpg tank/tank with my 2016 Forester with out even trying. Some highway speeds @ 75mpg, etc. Ride is smooth, cabin is about perfect for me.


Many times shuttling the kids around town, the dash computer records 37mpg for the trip. To me, the only thing that matters is the average over a whole tank of fuel. Like I say, that always levels out to ~32mpg for me. I could probably do ~2mpg better if I maintained much slower highway speeds with my work commute (80 miles round trip). Lots of hills, twists and 70+ MPH on that trip.

I have zero noticeable oil usage with the new Forester, but I'm only at 17K miles with it. My previous Subaru was a 2014 XV Crosstrek 5spd. That one did use oil at times. I traded it because of how much I loathed that particular 5spd. Ugh..
 
I've never done full tanks of pure highway with the Golf, however i often make the same 40 mile up and back trips, the return trip is loaded with books. The lying computer meter will read like 44 mpg or so. The VW forums vouch for the computer being off by 7 to 10%. My normal drive is about 6 miles city and 4 miles freeway each way and tank to tank averages a real honest 30 mpg. If i have a highway run in that tank it goes to like 33 mpg, so i believe the 40 mpg estimate at reasonable speeds. These runs were done on 85 octane gas too, would likely be higher if i ran premium every tank. Direct Injection makes it all happen, and i don't mind cleaning an intake every few years or changing my oil early for the benefits.
 
After these posts I looked up and priced the Mazda 6 Touring and it looks to me like a better deal
than the other Mazda's. Sounds like the latest have great automatic mpg with more sound deadening.
Might be worth a look.
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
I consider the accord 2.4 and CVT powertrain to be excellent since they have sold roughly 1 million of them in north america and the issues you find are very few and far between. Any DI engine will have some fuel dilution or valve deposits, that is the price of the higher performance.


They have sold a bunch. But with only 4 years of Accords and 2 years of CRVs on the road, you can't say durability has been proven, especially as fuel dilution is more likely to shorten engine life than lead to catastrophic failure.

In my case >5% fuel dilution (via Polaris GC) within 2,000 miles of mostly highway driving doesn't bode well. As Honda accepts this as "normal", I can't be the only one. Watch for a repeat of Honda's oil burning 2.4s, variable cylinder management V6s or Acura automatics. Honda isn't the exemplar of engineering it was a couple decades ago...
 
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Plenty of users are over 100k on 9th gen Accords, most owners have CVT, shamelessly stolen from the driveaccord site, one guys signature:

'13 Accord EX-L Sedan I4 CVT - 143,000 miles so far
Oil Change - 10K, 19.8K, 29K, 39.8K, 50.6K, 61.3K, 72.1K, 83.7K, 95.3K, 107K
Transmission Fluid - 51.1K, 107K

Accord is the bread and butter car for Honda, it gets the top level of R&D and quality, its simply an awesome drive train. I don't know if they V6 will be as good but i have full confidence in the K24W1 going the distance with a CVT or a manual atttached. When the CVTs do start failing i expect them to be reasonable to change out.
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
Accord is the bread and butter car for Honda, it gets the top level of R&D and quality, its simply an awesome drive train. I don't know if they V6 will be as good but i have full confidence in the K24W1 going the distance with a CVT or a manual attached. When the CVTs do start failing i expect them to be reasonable to change out.

Just like every other company, they spent a lot of R&D money on very high volume vehicles, because they want to make sure their vehicles will bring in good revenue year after year.

Honda will do whatever it takes to keep these vehicle as their top sellers: Accord, Civic, CRV ...

Same for Toyota, they spent ton of R&D money for Camry, Corolla, Rav4 ...
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
Plenty of users are over 100k on 9th gen Accords, most owners have CVT, shamelessly stolen from the driveaccord site, one guys signature:

'13 Accord EX-L Sedan I4 CVT - 143,000 miles so far
Oil Change - 10K, 19.8K, 29K, 39.8K, 50.6K, 61.3K, 72.1K, 83.7K, 95.3K, 107K
Transmission Fluid - 51.1K, 107K

Accord is the bread and butter car for Honda, it gets the top level of R&D and quality, its simply an awesome drive train. I don't know if they V6 will be as good but i have full confidence in the K24W1 going the distance with a CVT or a manual atttached. When the CVTs do start failing i expect them to be reasonable to change out.


You could be right and time will tell. But Honda's record on such things isn't unblemished. Maybe significant fuel dilution and oil falling out-of-grade was anticipated. But have you done a UOA on your Honda with a lab other than Blackstone? To me, driving the last 7,000 miles of an OCI with 6.2cSt or less oil in the crankcase isn't reassuring.
 
I just change the wifes oil when it gets to 15% OLM, never had any issues, never been more than 1 qt low in an average of 7500 miles per change. Is there some fuel in it? I dunno, and dont care. Its not turbo or high RPM, just a good little wife and kid hauling no drama engine.
 
I was in a friend's 2015 Malibu over the weekend. He was getting 36mpg highway, drove like a dream. Quick for a 4cyl. Think the transmission had a lot to do with it. I was shocked. $25k. He said the new hybrid gets 47mpg. Anyways thought I would mention an impressive American sedan.
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
I just change the wifes oil when it gets to 15% OLM, never had any issues, never been more than 1 qt low in an average of 7500 miles per change. Is there some fuel in it? I dunno, and dont care. Its not turbo or high RPM, just a good little wife and kid hauling no drama engine.


You have a point: I'd be happier if I behaved like a typical Honda owner and never went through the UOA looking glass. But now, I can't stop...
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
Plenty of users are over 100k on 9th gen Accords, most owners have CVT, shamelessly stolen from the driveaccord site, one guys signature:

'13 Accord EX-L Sedan I4 CVT - 143,000 miles so far
Oil Change - 10K, 19.8K, 29K, 39.8K, 50.6K, 61.3K, 72.1K, 83.7K, 95.3K, 107K
Transmission Fluid - 51.1K, 107K


There's a guy on here who had to have the cvt on his 2015 Accord hybrid replaced with 27k miles. Also on DA, a few years ago replacing the cvt early on was a common theme. I used to be more active over there a few years ago. A few of the guys that replaced them were Honda techs that owned Accords with the cvt. I'll see if I can find the threads over there. Yesterday a guy on here, flinter was complaining about the cvt on his 2015 Civic and talked about trading it in. Two dealers said the trans was acting normal and get used to it. Here's a thread about the tsb for 2014-2016 Accords and the CRV which includes replacing the transmission. One of the first active threads that appears in the 9th gen Accord section.

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/86-9th-generation/418169-new-tsb-15-16-i4-cvt-accords-cr-vs.html
 
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Sure you can find some people that have had CVT problems. The Civic uses a smaller and probably less durable CVT. But honestly, if you search enough, you will find someone having a transmission problem with every new vehicle. Manual, torque converter automatic, DSG auto, CVT auto, all of them. When you look at how small of a percentage of owners are actually having real issues, its a decent enough trans. Not that i would buy one over the manual option!
 
I used to be a moderator over there, well still am just don't visit there too much. So hopefully it's gotten better. But when a tsb says to replace the trans if a code is thrown then something is wrong. But at least they're stepping up to the plate and taking care of it with a new unit. I'd be hesitant to buy a cvt or recommend them to family/friends. Yes the manual is the way to go esp if traffic isn't an issue. Plus the manual is one of the best in the business.
 
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: dareo
Plenty of users are over 100k on 9th gen Accords, most owners have CVT, shamelessly stolen from the driveaccord site, one guys signature:

'13 Accord EX-L Sedan I4 CVT - 143,000 miles so far
Oil Change - 10K, 19.8K, 29K, 39.8K, 50.6K, 61.3K, 72.1K, 83.7K, 95.3K, 107K
Transmission Fluid - 51.1K, 107K


There's a guy on here who had to have the cvt on his 2015 Accord hybrid replaced with 27k miles. Also on DA, a few years ago replacing the cvt early on was a common theme. I used to be more active over there a few years ago. A few of the guys that replaced them were Honda techs that owned Accords with the cvt. I'll see if I can find the threads over there. Yesterday a guy on here, flinter was complaining about the cvt on his 2015 Civic and talked about trading it in. Two dealers said the trans was acting normal and get used to it. Here's a thread about the tsb for 2014-2016 Accords and the CRV which includes replacing the transmission. One of the first active threads that appears in the 9th gen Accord section.

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/86-9th-generation/418169-new-tsb-15-16-i4-cvt-accords-cr-vs.html


It's true the TSB requires replacing the transmission is a code is thrown, but from what I've seen in forums and what I hear from my dealer, tranmssion replacements are very, very rare; otherwise a quick software update is all that's needed. Of course, this shouldn't have occurred, but it seems to be simple human error in software coding rather than an inherent CVT fault.

It does make one question how thoroughly components are tested before release to production, but Honda is hardly the only offender here.
 
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