Liqui Moly Mos2 in BMW/Mercedes inline six

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I do know that. That fact doesn't take away from the meaning of a TÜV approval, or the fact that an FAA approval is much much more than what your average additive has.


Regardless of whether it is "much more than what your average additive has", FAA approval is irrelevant to a passenger car engine. That approval says nothing as to effectiveness at all. But, people like to throw it out (as they do for that bypass filter that has an STC for certain models) as if it means something. It does not. Besides on a technical level GA engines are completely different, especially the operating environment, the fuels and the oils.

TÜV approval doesn't show effectiveness either, does it? Isn't that a quality and safety mark? Couldn't I make a totally useless product that meets the quality standards and doesn't cause environmental harm and get TÜV approval?

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I do know that. That fact doesn't take away from the meaning of a TÜV approval, or the fact that an FAA approval is much much more than what your average additive has.


Regardless of whether it is "much more than what your average additive has", FAA approval is irrelevant to a passenger car engine. That approval says nothing as to effectiveness at all. But, people like to throw it out (as they do for that bypass filter that has an STC for certain models) as if it means something. It does not. Besides, on a technical level the designs are completely different, the operating environment is different and the oils are different for GA engines.

TÜV approval doesn't show effectiveness either, does it? Isn't that just a quality mark? I can make a totally useless product that meets the quality standards, correct?


A TÜV approval means that the product will do what the bottle says it does.

I also understand the differences between an aircraft reciprocating engine and an automobile engine, thank you. It's not like they both have seals, right? You're being purposely obtuse, and it's [censored] retarded.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
[I also understand the differences between an aircraft reciprocating engine and an automobile engine, thank you. It's not like they both have seals, right? You're being purposely obtuse, and it's [censored] retarded.


I know you understand it, that's why I brought it up. FAA approval means nothing as to effectiveness. Period.

Nice F bomb drop there too. There seems to be a lot of that going on these days.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
A TÜV approval means that the product will do what the bottle says it does.


So you are saying that there is something in the TÜV approval process that would prevent me from obtaining approval for a product that does no good but also does no harm?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OldEuroCarLover
The theory here is that the moly leaves something of a coating/plating on the metal, giving some additional lubrication while the cold oil starts to circulate. Whether or not this translates to reality, I have no idea.

The ZDDP in the oil already does that.

I'm generally not a fan of additives, by the way. However, the additive you have in mind is reasonably well respected, particularly in comparison to some of the other garbage that's out there.

 

[OldEuroCarLover]

Mobil 1 High Mileage is supposed to have a good amount of ZDDP, right? That's one of the reasons I've used it in the past.

 

[Garak]

It should, but the average A3/B4 oil already has sufficient ZDDP, and won't necessarily have any less, since they face the same limitations.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Garak
It should, but the average A3/B4 oil already has sufficient ZDDP

That's one reason why I chose Edge HM 10w40. While it does not carry LL01 approval, the fact that it meets A3/B4 gives me some confidence.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Garak
It should, but the average A3/B4 oil already has sufficient ZDDP

That's one reason why I chose Edge HM 10w40. While it does not carry LL01 approval, the fact that it meets A3/B4 gives me some confidence.


Which would also be true of M1 FS.

 

[RooflessVW]

I'm not sure why anyone would use anything but an LL01 oil in a BMW that requires it.

Oils carrying LL01 are some of the finest oils on the market, period.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Garak
It should, but the average A3/B4 oil already has sufficient ZDDP

That's one reason why I chose Edge HM 10w40. While it does not carry LL01 approval, the fact that it meets A3/B4 gives me some confidence.


Which would also be true of M1 FS.

Yes, but I wanted to try an HM oil in hopes of reducing oil leaks.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I'm not sure why anyone would use anything but an LL01 oil in a BMW that requires it.

I gave my reasons. See above.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yes, but I wanted to try an HM oil in hopes of reducing oil leaks.


Ah yes I forgot that. I also have a small rear main seal leak, maybe I should try it too.

Of course it's sometimes hard to tell what exactly is leaking on this car.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Of course it's sometimes hard to tell what exactly is leaking on this car.

Yeah, no kidding. I already replaced the VCG as well as oil filter housing gasket. I guess the only other culprits now would be RMS and oil pan gasket.

I was quoted $1K to replace the RMS since the trans has to be dropped, so I've been delaying it. Not sure how much longer I'll hold onto this car...

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yeah, no kidding. I already replaced the VCG as well as oil filter housing gasket. I guess the only other culprits now would be RMS and oil pan gasket.

I was quoted $1K to replace the RMS since the trans has to be dropped, so I've been delaying it. Not sure how much longer I'll hold onto this car...


Probably oil pan gasket. My M54 leaked there as well. Not a hard job to do in the garage, although it can be messy depending on how much oil gunk is built up. I don't understand why BMW still uses the same [censored] gasket material that turns to hard plastic over 5 years. They are probably one of the most ignorant car companies, but they are still my favorite car to own and drive. Go figure.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Probably oil pan gasket. My M54 leaked there as well. Not a hard job to do in the garage, although it can be messy depending on how much oil gunk is built up. I don't understand why BMW still uses the same [censored] gasket material that turns to hard plastic over 5 years. They are probably one of the most ignorant car companies, but they are still my favorite car to own and drive. Go figure.


The factory one for my old M60 engine is a metal thing with a tiny little polymer bead on the inside. The one that was leaking when I got the car was an aftermarket one that was more traditional looking. Since replacing that one with the factory gasket, the oil pan at least has stopped leaking.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
The factory one for my old M60 engine is a metal thing with a tiny little polymer bead on the inside. The one that was leaking when I got the car was an aftermarket one that was more traditional looking. Since replacing that one with the factory gasket, the oil pan at least has stopped leaking.


Yep, the factory one is the metal/polymer one, but even that will fail. I was mainly referring to the rubbery gasket material BMW uses for the valve covers, oil filter housing, timing covers, cam sensors, valvetronic solenoids, etc.... Basically anything that interfaces with oil.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Yep, the factory one is the metal/polymer one, but even that will fail. I was mainly referring to the rubbery gasket material BMW uses for the valve covers, oil filter housing, timing covers, cam sensors, valvetronic solenoids, etc.... Basically anything that interfaces with oil.


To be honest, after watching the flawless performance of Toyota FIPG over the last 17 years I might use that next time instead of any gaskets. Unless of course the design is such that you have to use a gasket, such as for the valve covers.

 

[OldEuroCarLover]

My Genuine BMW oil pan gasket (M54) was the metal type with a thin polymer/rubber seal on the inside as well.

I've been thinking about using that Toyota gasket stuff on my Volvo. The felt valve cover gasket is leaking no matter what I do. First I tried the Elring gasket, then I added RTV to the common leak points, then I used a Genuine Volvo gasket, then RTV again. Nothing works.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Garak
It should, but the average A3/B4 oil already has sufficient ZDDP

That's one reason why I chose Edge HM 10w40. While it does not carry LL01 approval, the fact that it meets A3/B4 gives me some confidence.

Yes, that one certainly does have A3/B4, as does at least one other HM oil down south. Generally speaking, one sometimes looks at a HM oil for enhanced ZDDP in reference to a basic ILSAC oil, assuming that the HM oil isn't an ILSAC oil itself. For most applications, I wouldn't worry terribly much about ZDDP content of an A3/B4 oil.