My comment of relatively tight clearances was in relation to the rod bearings. I'm sorry I should have been more specific.
Dave
Dave
Sportster 1200 recommendations
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Indirectly I think you echo my rationale for questioning the 50 year old recommendation. I believe the oils we are using today are significantly different/better than the 50wt oils of 50 years ago. If we are never going to be inquisitive or question the validity of claims there's no reason for this forum to exist.
Dave
Dave
Originally Posted By: DrDave
Indirectly I think you echo my rationale for questioning the 50 year old recommendation. I believe the oils we are using today are significantly different/better than the 50wt oils of 50 years ago. If we are never going to be inquisitive or question the validity of claims there's no reason for this forum to exist.
Dave
I think the idea that thicker oils are just a hold over traditions is certainly a false one. Look at Victory/Indian. They are specifying 60 weight oils for their newer machines instead of 40 weights. They are certainly not as steeped in tradition as Harley.
Are the oils of today better than those 30 years ago...in many cases they most certainly are. While the Spoty mill is around 30 years old now, there have been much newer designs coming out of Harley such as the Revolution engine and it too specs 20w50.
Indirectly I think you echo my rationale for questioning the 50 year old recommendation. I believe the oils we are using today are significantly different/better than the 50wt oils of 50 years ago. If we are never going to be inquisitive or question the validity of claims there's no reason for this forum to exist.
Dave
I think the idea that thicker oils are just a hold over traditions is certainly a false one. Look at Victory/Indian. They are specifying 60 weight oils for their newer machines instead of 40 weights. They are certainly not as steeped in tradition as Harley.
Are the oils of today better than those 30 years ago...in many cases they most certainly are. While the Spoty mill is around 30 years old now, there have been much newer designs coming out of Harley such as the Revolution engine and it too specs 20w50.
There seems to be something going on that common sense doesn't account for. I'm trying to envision what specific bearing surface or motor components require such heavy oil. The only possible thing I could Identify on my Sportster motor was wide ring end gaps.
Dave
Dave
Originally Posted By: DrDave
Why is x-50wt oil being used in a motor with relatively tight bearing clearances? I used 10-30 in my Sportster and saw a significant drop in wear metals.
Dave
FWIW - My Sporty was quite a bit noisier on T6 than on 20/50, it does shift a bit better with 10/40 in the primary.
Why is x-50wt oil being used in a motor with relatively tight bearing clearances? I used 10-30 in my Sportster and saw a significant drop in wear metals.
Dave
FWIW - My Sporty was quite a bit noisier on T6 than on 20/50, it does shift a bit better with 10/40 in the primary.
Originally Posted By: DrDave
There seems to be something going on that common sense doesn't account for. I'm trying to envision what specific bearing surface or motor components require such heavy oil. The only possible thing I could Identify on my Sportster motor was wide ring end gaps.
Dave
It has little to do with common sense, it has to do with engineering. Yamaha, Indian, Ducati, Harley, Triumph, etc all have bikes of recent production that are relatively new that in the right climate call for that grade of oil or even thicker. Indian for their air cooled big twins spec a 20w40, but their liquid cooled Scouts call for 10w60. One of the many possible reasons for thicker oil is simply most have a shared sump system with creates sheer and that is taken into account when picking an oil viscosity. For others, it is the fact that the engines run rather hot being of a certain configuration and air cooled. It could also be a concern for fuel dilution. Lots of possibilities.
There are some racing motors out there that use 60 or even 70 weight oils. I know our race car always got 25w50 racing oil. Why? Because of the fuel and injection system we used.
There seems to be something going on that common sense doesn't account for. I'm trying to envision what specific bearing surface or motor components require such heavy oil. The only possible thing I could Identify on my Sportster motor was wide ring end gaps.
Dave
It has little to do with common sense, it has to do with engineering. Yamaha, Indian, Ducati, Harley, Triumph, etc all have bikes of recent production that are relatively new that in the right climate call for that grade of oil or even thicker. Indian for their air cooled big twins spec a 20w40, but their liquid cooled Scouts call for 10w60. One of the many possible reasons for thicker oil is simply most have a shared sump system with creates sheer and that is taken into account when picking an oil viscosity. For others, it is the fact that the engines run rather hot being of a certain configuration and air cooled. It could also be a concern for fuel dilution. Lots of possibilities.
There are some racing motors out there that use 60 or even 70 weight oils. I know our race car always got 25w50 racing oil. Why? Because of the fuel and injection system we used.
Originally Posted By: 02s4audi
I've done some research and have seen that Harleys like the vr1 20w50. Which would be the better option in that, the conventional or synthetic version?.... What oils would you recommend?
VR1 20/50 Conventional for your first question.
Any ACEA A3/B4 oil (or CH4 or higher) rated conventional 20/50 (or 15/50 or 10/60) oil for your second question as a first choice for me personally.
If you ride in temps below 50 degrees I would then possibly consider a 15/40 HEDO (diesel oil) for winter riding as I see you are from NY. (my old home state for decades
) )
Its no secret in these forums on what I use, Mystik JT8 20/50.
I've done some research and have seen that Harleys like the vr1 20w50. Which would be the better option in that, the conventional or synthetic version?.... What oils would you recommend?
VR1 20/50 Conventional for your first question.
Any ACEA A3/B4 oil (or CH4 or higher) rated conventional 20/50 (or 15/50 or 10/60) oil for your second question as a first choice for me personally.
If you ride in temps below 50 degrees I would then possibly consider a 15/40 HEDO (diesel oil) for winter riding as I see you are from NY. (my old home state for decades
) )Its no secret in these forums on what I use, Mystik JT8 20/50.
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Found this thread and thought I would add this to it for posterity. It seems the 06 Sportsters were some of the best built most reliable bikes built by the MoCo. I know of one owner Parrothead from the xlforum that does the iron butt stuff: His mileage just clicked over 205,000 virtually trouble free. Just do your maintenance, and run any quality 20w50 oil. Valvoline 20w50 4t conventional is fine. It's hard to kill a maintained evo sportster.
Originally Posted By: DrDave
My comment of relatively tight clearances was in relation to the rod bearings. I'm sorry I should have been more specific.
Dave
Roller bearing rod ends. Timken Roller bearings too. The clearences aren't really that tight.
My comment of relatively tight clearances was in relation to the rod bearings. I'm sorry I should have been more specific.
Dave
Roller bearing rod ends. Timken Roller bearings too. The clearences aren't really that tight.
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Originally Posted By: xl2006
Roller bearing rod ends. Timken Roller bearings too. The clearences aren't really that tight.
The big end of the rods are roller bearing, the piston pin end is a bushing.
I believe these are the pin clearances from my service manual-
Piston pin to piston- 0.00005-0.00045 inch 1.3-11.4 microns
Piston pin to connecting rod- 0.00125-0.00175 inch 31.8-44.5 microns
Roller bearing rod ends. Timken Roller bearings too. The clearences aren't really that tight.
The big end of the rods are roller bearing, the piston pin end is a bushing.
I believe these are the pin clearances from my service manual-
Piston pin to piston- 0.00005-0.00045 inch 1.3-11.4 microns
Piston pin to connecting rod- 0.00125-0.00175 inch 31.8-44.5 microns
04 up bikes got the oil squirters that helped cool the bottom and inner piston surface. Massive improvement on the evolution xl motor.
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