JTK,
What was the mileage on the brakes?
What was the mileage on the brakes?
SO much cheaper to do brakes yourself..
- Thread starter JTK
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I did a four wheel brake job on my GF's Lexus IS250 for a grand total of $72 (Rock Auto's "performance" pads - Sumitomo and Akebono). The car had no need of anything done to the rotors, either. I used to do the same thing on my 89 Accord for 350,000 miles. I replaced the rotors only after 300,000 miles, when they had worn down to the minimum thickness.
Brakes, for a lot of people, carry a "mystique." When shops talk about your life riding on brake performance it becomes quite easy to sell overpriced, unnecessary services. I mean, who's going to cheap out when the life of the family hangs in the balance? Those of us who have done our own brakes for years can cut through the hype and probably end up with fewer failures because we monitor the condition of the brakes rather than waiting for someone else to tell us how deplorably shot they are.
Do it often enough and a pad slap plus occasional bleeding is all you'll ever need. In 350,000 miles I never had to replace any components other than rotors - once.
Brakes, for a lot of people, carry a "mystique." When shops talk about your life riding on brake performance it becomes quite easy to sell overpriced, unnecessary services. I mean, who's going to cheap out when the life of the family hangs in the balance? Those of us who have done our own brakes for years can cut through the hype and probably end up with fewer failures because we monitor the condition of the brakes rather than waiting for someone else to tell us how deplorably shot they are.
Do it often enough and a pad slap plus occasional bleeding is all you'll ever need. In 350,000 miles I never had to replace any components other than rotors - once.
Originally Posted By: JC1
JTK,
What was the mileage on the brakes?
58k miles currently on the van. The front brakes have a bit of life left on them. This van has the HD brakes.
To those with the snarky "what don't I understand" comments on shops needing to make a profit, I get that they need to. It's a business. At no time did I ridicule them for this. Just posting my experience having never paid someone to do brake work for me before.
JTK,
What was the mileage on the brakes?
58k miles currently on the van. The front brakes have a bit of life left on them. This van has the HD brakes.
To those with the snarky "what don't I understand" comments on shops needing to make a profit, I get that they need to. It's a business. At no time did I ridicule them for this. Just posting my experience having never paid someone to do brake work for me before.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: supton
It is cheaper, but the last time I changed a caliper I spent hours (literally hours) trying to get it to bleed--only to have it magically start working once I started driving it. ???? Haven't figured that one out yet, but I know I won't get back those hours of my life either.
Still have a non-OEM caliper on there that I'm not sure what to do about. Need to change the pads soon, maybe I should try changing the caliper. Again. Or not...
I like to pull the brakes once/year and lube all the sliding surfaces, and to check for pad delamination. I've caught two cases of delamin in the past 10 years--after having a pad fall off. It's a great time to also pull out the Fluid Film and reach some spots which I can't get to when I crawl under.
Did you paint the caliper? It'll probably rust away if you didn't paint it yourself.
It is cheaper, but the last time I changed a caliper I spent hours (literally hours) trying to get it to bleed--only to have it magically start working once I started driving it. ???? Haven't figured that one out yet, but I know I won't get back those hours of my life either.
Still have a non-OEM caliper on there that I'm not sure what to do about. Need to change the pads soon, maybe I should try changing the caliper. Again. Or not...
I like to pull the brakes once/year and lube all the sliding surfaces, and to check for pad delamination. I've caught two cases of delamin in the past 10 years--after having a pad fall off. It's a great time to also pull out the Fluid Film and reach some spots which I can't get to when I crawl under.
Did you paint the caliper? It'll probably rust away if you didn't paint it yourself.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: supton
It is cheaper, but the last time I changed a caliper I spent hours (literally hours) trying to get it to bleed--only to have it magically start working once I started driving it. ???? Haven't figured that one out yet, but I know I won't get back those hours of my life either.
Still have a non-OEM caliper on there that I'm not sure what to do about. Need to change the pads soon, maybe I should try changing the caliper. Again. Or not...
I like to pull the brakes once/year and lube all the sliding surfaces, and to check for pad delamination. I've caught two cases of delamin in the past 10 years--after having a pad fall off. It's a great time to also pull out the Fluid Film and reach some spots which I can't get to when I crawl under.
Did you paint the caliper? It'll probably rust away if you didn't paint it yourself.
No, won't bother either. Never had a problem with the caliper rusting away. Rotors, yes. Pad material coming loose from the backing plate, yes. And now, rust on the piston (which is where you can't paint).
Although, after 11 years the bleeders on the VW were just about done for, the original ones up front that is. I might have to buy some spares for the Toyota's now that I think about it--they're still in good shape, but perhaps I ought to put some on the shelf, "just in case".
Originally Posted By: supton
It is cheaper, but the last time I changed a caliper I spent hours (literally hours) trying to get it to bleed--only to have it magically start working once I started driving it. ???? Haven't figured that one out yet, but I know I won't get back those hours of my life either.
Still have a non-OEM caliper on there that I'm not sure what to do about. Need to change the pads soon, maybe I should try changing the caliper. Again. Or not...
I like to pull the brakes once/year and lube all the sliding surfaces, and to check for pad delamination. I've caught two cases of delamin in the past 10 years--after having a pad fall off. It's a great time to also pull out the Fluid Film and reach some spots which I can't get to when I crawl under.
Did you paint the caliper? It'll probably rust away if you didn't paint it yourself.
No, won't bother either. Never had a problem with the caliper rusting away. Rotors, yes. Pad material coming loose from the backing plate, yes. And now, rust on the piston (which is where you can't paint).
Although, after 11 years the bleeders on the VW were just about done for, the original ones up front that is. I might have to buy some spares for the Toyota's now that I think about it--they're still in good shape, but perhaps I ought to put some on the shelf, "just in case".
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I did a four wheel brake job on my GF's Lexus IS250 for a grand total of $72 (Rock Auto's "performance" pads - Sumitomo and Akebono). The car had no need of anything done to the rotors, either. I used to do the same thing on my 89 Accord for 350,000 miles. I replaced the rotors only after 300,000 miles, when they had worn down to the minimum thickness.
Brakes, for a lot of people, carry a "mystique." When shops talk about your life riding on brake performance it becomes quite easy to sell overpriced, unnecessary services. I mean, who's going to cheap out when the life of the family hangs in the balance? Those of us who have done our own brakes for years can cut through the hype and probably end up with fewer failures because we monitor the condition of the brakes rather than waiting for someone else to tell us how deplorably shot they are.
Do it often enough and a pad slap plus occasional bleeding is all you'll ever need. In 350,000 miles I never had to replace any components other than rotors - once.
^^^^I couldn't agree more. Brakes are overrated in the repair world just to pad the profit.
I did a four wheel brake job on my GF's Lexus IS250 for a grand total of $72 (Rock Auto's "performance" pads - Sumitomo and Akebono). The car had no need of anything done to the rotors, either. I used to do the same thing on my 89 Accord for 350,000 miles. I replaced the rotors only after 300,000 miles, when they had worn down to the minimum thickness.
Brakes, for a lot of people, carry a "mystique." When shops talk about your life riding on brake performance it becomes quite easy to sell overpriced, unnecessary services. I mean, who's going to cheap out when the life of the family hangs in the balance? Those of us who have done our own brakes for years can cut through the hype and probably end up with fewer failures because we monitor the condition of the brakes rather than waiting for someone else to tell us how deplorably shot they are.
Do it often enough and a pad slap plus occasional bleeding is all you'll ever need. In 350,000 miles I never had to replace any components other than rotors - once.
^^^^I couldn't agree more. Brakes are overrated in the repair world just to pad the profit.
Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
That's not a bad price if they used quality parts.
Are you serious? The absolute best pads you can buy aren't more than $80 a set so the other ~$300 is all labor!
And being disc brakes, the pad change takes all of 20 mins...
The ~13" rear rotors are just under $60/ea. It's about ~$170 in parts for the rear pads/rotors.
Parts do get marked up by dealers and indy's so they can stay afloat and cover callbacks. I have yet to meet any person who got rich in auto repair industry.
Personally I think they are an easy walk job that generates profit to cover the balance of repairs shops perform barely getting a profit.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
That's not a bad price if they used quality parts.
Are you serious? The absolute best pads you can buy aren't more than $80 a set so the other ~$300 is all labor!
And being disc brakes, the pad change takes all of 20 mins...
The ~13" rear rotors are just under $60/ea. It's about ~$170 in parts for the rear pads/rotors.
Parts do get marked up by dealers and indy's so they can stay afloat and cover callbacks. I have yet to meet any person who got rich in auto repair industry.
Personally I think they are an easy walk job that generates profit to cover the balance of repairs shops perform barely getting a profit.
Interestingly enough, the indy shop used Monroe pads. I'm assuming the rotors came from the same source. You can see the pad p/n through the wheels and they're the premium ceramics per the Monroe parts website and come with the clips/hardware. I never though of Monroe parts, other than shocks/struts.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I did a four wheel brake job on my GF's Lexus IS250 for a grand total of $72 (Rock Auto's "performance" pads - Sumitomo and Akebono). The car had no need of anything done to the rotors, either.
I left out the best part. Her daughter had leased the car for three years before my GF bought it off-lease. The rear pads are so tiny on that car that they actually wear out at the same time as the front pads. She had me check out the car and at the time her daughter told me that her mechanic said it needed $600 worth of brake work.
Well...
They were the most expensive brake pads I ever bought. LOL
I did a four wheel brake job on my GF's Lexus IS250 for a grand total of $72 (Rock Auto's "performance" pads - Sumitomo and Akebono). The car had no need of anything done to the rotors, either.
I left out the best part. Her daughter had leased the car for three years before my GF bought it off-lease. The rear pads are so tiny on that car that they actually wear out at the same time as the front pads. She had me check out the car and at the time her daughter told me that her mechanic said it needed $600 worth of brake work.
Well...
They were the most expensive brake pads I ever bought. LOL
Originally Posted By: grampi
It's no mystery that doing any type of maintenance yourself is far less expensive than having it done by a repair shop...I try to do as much of my own maintenance as I can, but I'm limited by tools, know-how, and sometimes time.
Exactly. You're paying for their time and overhead (and convenience). Sometimes however, it is worth it to pay more to have someone else mess with it, especially if the parts are of good quality and come with a decent warranty. I just went through this with the lower control arms on our Fusion. The price they quoted me was just over double what it would have cost me if I did it myself with the same Motorcraft parts. But ain't no way that I'm dropping the subframe myself with hand tools and no lift
not these days at least. Plus I got a free loaner, so I was happy.
It's no mystery that doing any type of maintenance yourself is far less expensive than having it done by a repair shop...I try to do as much of my own maintenance as I can, but I'm limited by tools, know-how, and sometimes time.
Exactly. You're paying for their time and overhead (and convenience). Sometimes however, it is worth it to pay more to have someone else mess with it, especially if the parts are of good quality and come with a decent warranty. I just went through this with the lower control arms on our Fusion. The price they quoted me was just over double what it would have cost me if I did it myself with the same Motorcraft parts. But ain't no way that I'm dropping the subframe myself with hand tools and no lift
No way am I an auto mechanic. 59 years old. But with you tube I've been doing a bit myself with prices being the way they are. Dealership wanted $383.00 to tune my 07 titan,[8 spark plugs]. Since then I try to do what I can, brakes, all fluid changes, from oil to differentials to transfer case and so on. This includes our 08 jeep cherokee and 01 tribute. You tube has been a blessing for me, with the high pricing, then a manager saying I need this and that, after having same work done within the past year. Chrysler dealership always tries to kill me, 08 jeep has lifetime drivetrain warranty, so I do get certain things done by them, transmission flush, coolant flush, and their tune up[$69.00]. I always tell them to check the records. Just did front and back brakes,rotor and pads on the titan. Was a fairly easy job, other then the tires being placed back on. Thank you you tube.
The power of the interwebs has definitely been a great tool for many of us. Even with that, there are some jobs I would gladly pay a shop to do for me depending on the job scope, time of year, etc.
I started on bicycles,at 8 and was into driving by 10. I couldn't afford a mechanic. My only choice was to fix it myself. I wasn't born knowing how to fix stuff. Its been 65 yrs of trial and error. Mostly error
I have been on both sides of this table (customer and as a provider). Brake jobs are seemingly easy, but most brake jobs are not performed properly and providers tend to leave out many of the key steps (or perform them inadequately). Cleaning the hub flange (until it looks like new metal), measuring runout (indexing the rotor if needed), cleaning the caliper bracket with a file or wire brush, performing a proper pad bed in -- those are all key steps to a proper brake job and are specified by EVERY vehicle manufacturer in their factory repair manual. If all steps are done properly, a proper brake job will take about 2 hours per axle.
.
With that said, there's a decent chance that you paid for a "less than proper" brake job. For one of those, I think 1-hr labor per axle is fair with 30-50% in parts mark-up. So, $350 is probably about right.
.
With that said, there's a decent chance that you paid for a "less than proper" brake job. For one of those, I think 1-hr labor per axle is fair with 30-50% in parts mark-up. So, $350 is probably about right.
My experience in DIY auto care (beyond simple oil changes anyway) got started with a quote from a VW dealer for rear pads! I noticed they were hanging up a bit and looked appeared to be getting thin. They wanted $400 just for the rear pads on my 2002 Jetta TDI, over $600 for pads and rotors. I bought some high-quality pads and rotors for $100 or less, and had them done by the guy that did my timing belt and water pump. He let me do one side after watching him do the first side. Paid $250 or so in labor for everything. This was in 2006.
I have a friend that worked at a gas station years ago doing normal repair work. He and his coworkers would see who could do brake jobs the fastest, so you know there were corners being cut there... I'm sure a lot of places are the same. Maybe not having contests, but most mechanics are paid on book rate, so the faster you can do the job the more you make. Are they cutting enough corners to affect safety, probably not... but are they reducing the longevity of your brake components by not cleaning and lubing them property, letting your calipers dangle by the brake lines, over torquing your wheels, and so forth... very likely. Although I'm certain there are many mechanics out there that take pride in their work, there are a bunch that will cut some corners if it means bringing home an extra $50 that day.
The money savings is nice, but I DIY as much as I can because I go slowly and do it right. And yes, Youtube is a godsent.
I have a friend that worked at a gas station years ago doing normal repair work. He and his coworkers would see who could do brake jobs the fastest, so you know there were corners being cut there... I'm sure a lot of places are the same. Maybe not having contests, but most mechanics are paid on book rate, so the faster you can do the job the more you make. Are they cutting enough corners to affect safety, probably not... but are they reducing the longevity of your brake components by not cleaning and lubing them property, letting your calipers dangle by the brake lines, over torquing your wheels, and so forth... very likely. Although I'm certain there are many mechanics out there that take pride in their work, there are a bunch that will cut some corners if it means bringing home an extra $50 that day.
The money savings is nice, but I DIY as much as I can because I go slowly and do it right. And yes, Youtube is a godsent.
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Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have been on both sides of this table (customer and as a provider). Brake jobs are seemingly easy, but most brake jobs are not performed properly and providers tend to leave out many of the key steps (or perform them inadequately). Cleaning the hub flange (until it looks like new metal), measuring runout (indexing the rotor if needed), cleaning the caliper bracket with a file or wire brush, performing a proper pad bed in -- those are all key steps to a proper brake job and are specified by EVERY vehicle manufacturer in their factory repair manual. If all steps are done properly, a proper brake job will take about 2 hours per axle.
.
With that said, there's a decent chance that you paid for a "less than proper" brake job. For one of those, I think 1-hr labor per axle is fair with 30-50% in parts mark-up. So, $350 is probably about right.
Critic, that would be sweet if every brake job included that level of care. I know I don't go through all those stops even when I do them myself. However I do clean the hub face and butter it with anti-seize to (hopefully) make the rotors come off easier the next time. I can almost guarantee the ~$450 dealer quote didn't go through even half of that.
I have been on both sides of this table (customer and as a provider). Brake jobs are seemingly easy, but most brake jobs are not performed properly and providers tend to leave out many of the key steps (or perform them inadequately). Cleaning the hub flange (until it looks like new metal), measuring runout (indexing the rotor if needed), cleaning the caliper bracket with a file or wire brush, performing a proper pad bed in -- those are all key steps to a proper brake job and are specified by EVERY vehicle manufacturer in their factory repair manual. If all steps are done properly, a proper brake job will take about 2 hours per axle.
.
With that said, there's a decent chance that you paid for a "less than proper" brake job. For one of those, I think 1-hr labor per axle is fair with 30-50% in parts mark-up. So, $350 is probably about right.
Critic, that would be sweet if every brake job included that level of care. I know I don't go through all those stops even when I do them myself. However I do clean the hub face and butter it with anti-seize to (hopefully) make the rotors come off easier the next time. I can almost guarantee the ~$450 dealer quote didn't go through even half of that.
Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have been on both sides of this table (customer and as a provider). Brake jobs are seemingly easy, but most brake jobs are not performed properly and providers tend to leave out many of the key steps (or perform them inadequately). Cleaning the hub flange (until it looks like new metal), measuring runout (indexing the rotor if needed), cleaning the caliper bracket with a file or wire brush, performing a proper pad bed in -- those are all key steps to a proper brake job and are specified by EVERY vehicle manufacturer in their factory repair manual. If all steps are done properly, a proper brake job will take about 2 hours per axle.
.
With that said, there's a decent chance that you paid for a "less than proper" brake job. For one of those, I think 1-hr labor per axle is fair with 30-50% in parts mark-up. So, $350 is probably about right.
Critic, that would be sweet if every brake job included that level of care. I know I don't go through all those stops even when I do them myself. However I do clean the hub face and butter it with anti-seize to (hopefully) make the rotors come off easier the next time. I can almost guarantee the ~$450 dealer quote didn't go through even half of that.
I usually try to avoid putting lubricants on the hub face since the area between the hub flange and the rotor hat isn't sealed on most cars, and dirt can stick to the lubricant and cause runout issues. I did have to use it on a GL450 that I did last weekend since MB called for anti-seize on the hub flange.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I have been on both sides of this table (customer and as a provider). Brake jobs are seemingly easy, but most brake jobs are not performed properly and providers tend to leave out many of the key steps (or perform them inadequately). Cleaning the hub flange (until it looks like new metal), measuring runout (indexing the rotor if needed), cleaning the caliper bracket with a file or wire brush, performing a proper pad bed in -- those are all key steps to a proper brake job and are specified by EVERY vehicle manufacturer in their factory repair manual. If all steps are done properly, a proper brake job will take about 2 hours per axle.
.
With that said, there's a decent chance that you paid for a "less than proper" brake job. For one of those, I think 1-hr labor per axle is fair with 30-50% in parts mark-up. So, $350 is probably about right.
Critic, that would be sweet if every brake job included that level of care. I know I don't go through all those stops even when I do them myself. However I do clean the hub face and butter it with anti-seize to (hopefully) make the rotors come off easier the next time. I can almost guarantee the ~$450 dealer quote didn't go through even half of that.
I usually try to avoid putting lubricants on the hub face since the area between the hub flange and the rotor hat isn't sealed on most cars, and dirt can stick to the lubricant and cause runout issues. I did have to use it on a GL450 that I did last weekend since MB called for anti-seize on the hub flange.
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