Replace Honda MTF - Can't Find Synchromesh

[HighlanderBH]

Hi! I need help! I live in a junk country so I don't have access to oil brands like Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, Penzoil and many others. The problem is that my 2007 Civic Si manual trasmission is very notchy in the first 3 gears, and I really want to use Synchromesh oils instead of Honda MTF.

I have limited access to these oil brands:

Motul
Pentosin
Valvoline
Castrol
Mobil
Elf
ACDelco (except GM Synchromesh)
Total
Petronas
Febi

Does any of these brands have an oil similar to Amsoil Synchromesh?

As a last resort, can I blend different oils to achieve the Synchromesh characteristics?

Thanks! Best regards,

 

[Revving2Redline]

Pennzoil has a manual fluid.

 

[Revving2Redline]

If you need mtf honda and cant get it i can mail you some and pay me when it arrives.Let me know

 

[HighlanderBH]

Marco620,

I can get Honda MTF here, but no Pennzoil.

I'd like a better oil than Honda MTF. Most of Civic Si owners likes the Amsoil Synchromesh, but I can't find it here too.

 

[DeafBrad]

Synchromesh is made for some GM cars and is a trick people use in cars that grind when they shift. It can help worn out synchronizers work. I used it in one of my cars.

 

[Superflop]

Castrol syntorq lt I believe

 

[Popsy]

Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle (GL4)
Castrol Syntrans Transaxle (GL4+)

Used the Syntrans Multivehicle in the Smart and Colt with great success.

 

[SLCraig]

You can buy Pennzoil Synchromesh MTF on Amazon.com if that helps.
I can't recommend it enough. Use it in my SI, and used it in the girlfriends 06 coupe. Love the results. The SI 6 speed shifts so crisp its incredible.

 

[GREBOW]

I second trying the Gm syncromesh, it will smooth out your shifting and is used by Honda owners.

 

[Hounds]

Highlander, Reader's Digest version: If you can't find a source for Amsoil, I recommend mixing "Genuine Honda" MTF with Mobil 1 5W-30 in a 50/50 ratio. You won't believe how well it works.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
You can buy Pennzoil Synchromesh MTF on Amazon.com if that helps.
I can't recommend it enough. Use it in my SI, and used it in the girlfriends 06 coupe. Love the results. The SI 6 speed shifts so crisp its incredible.

Which of the two contributes the most in smooth shifting, MTF or differential fluid ?

I tried GM Synchromesh MTF in my S2000 some years ago, I didn't like it because it wasn't as smooth as Honda MTF after a year and 4-5k miles or so.

 

[MolaKule]

If all else fails, try the Valvoline MTF.

The GM synchromeshes, Pennzoil Synchromesh, Amsoil MTF, the Valvoline MTF, and the Redline 75W80 all have about the same viscosity.

 

[Menel]

Originally Posted By: HighlanderBH
Marco620,

I can get Honda MTF here, but no Pennzoil.

I'd like a better oil than Honda MTF. Most of Civic Si owners likes the Amsoil Synchromesh, but I can't find it here too.
You can order direct from AMSOIL. I highly highly recommend it.

Ran it in my RSX TypeS 6mt, from 30k through 160k (sold car), and two seasons of scca solo. Reliable, smooth shifting, no grinding. I wouldn't run anything else in a Honda.

 

[HighlanderBH]

Thank you all for the help. May I add more information?

I'm very confused about my Civic Si transmission. I use my car three days per week. And on each day and moment the transmission behavior is different. The external temperature is always around 20ºC (68F). Let me give an example.

I drove my car on saturday and monday. The transmission was very notchy. However, on wednesday the transmission was great at the first 30 minutes, until I parked the car. After 10 minutes I started the car again and the trasmission was regular. And after driving 10 minutes it was very notchy again.

Some important info: The car has 94000 Km (58000 mi). Clutch and transmission oil (Honda) have only 5000 Km (3000 mi). I didn't drive hard anytime on wednesday, but I live in a city with a lot of ramps (more clutch wear).

So, what is the cause of all this? Temperature? Time? Not related to the transmission fluid?

Going back to the oils options, I will try to summarize what I saw announced here.


VALVOLINE HP GEAR OIL GL-4 SAE 80W
VALVOLINE SYNPOWER SAE75W90

CASTROL SYNTRANS FE 75W

MOTUL MOTYLGEAR 75W80 GL-4/GL-5
MOTUL MOTYLGEAR 75W90 GL-4/GL-5
MOTUL GEAR 300 75W90 GL-4/GL-5 (very expensive)

ACDELCO 75W85 P# 94728699

PENTOSIN MTF-2 GL-4 (I have to check with distributor)

MOBIL MOBILUBE GX-A 80W GL-4

TOTAL TRANSELF TRX 75W80
TOTAL TRANSMISSION SYN FE 75w90


Some of these oils is really good? Or maybe should I think about motor oils blends?

About international shipping, most sellers don't do. Besides, shipping, handling and import charges are too expensive.

Amsoil website: "The AMSOIL Online Store is available only for U.S. and Canada customers at this time."

See ya!

 

[Hounds]

Highlander, once again, if you cannot find an affordable source for Amsoil or Redline (as suggested above), I recommend you try mixing Honda's MTF and Mobil 1 5W-30 in a 50/50 ratio. (I could fill a page or more with a lengthy description of what worked best for me in two Honda Civic Si's over the course of now 14 years, but I don't see the point if you're determined to stick with the oils you've listed above.) What I'm suggesting is reasonably available to you and inexpensive. It works. Try it.

 

[HighlanderBH]

Hounds,

I wrote down your observations from the first post. I plan to use Mobil 1 if I do not get a good MTF alternative. How many people have used this blend?

Thanks!

 

[Hounds]

Highlander, you asked how many people have used my recommended concoction. I have no idea. I've posted similar comments on vtec.net, clubrsx.com, honda-tech.com, and other boards over the years, and from time to time a few people have taken the time to say it worked for them to the point that it eliminated or mitigated various problems they'd experienced, including grinding gears on the 1st-to-2nd gearshift.

JFI, my recommendation regarding the use of 5W-30 weight oil in a manual transmission Honda is by no means novel or unique. For at least two decades, 5W-30 weight conventional motor oil was the manual transmission "fluid" that Honda used and recommended as the replacement fill. Just plain 'ol motor oil. In the last fifteen years or so, Honda began to sell "Genuine Honda" MTF, and later still, that MTF was re-formulated as a semi-synthetic. (The part numbers changed.) It's my hunch that Honda went to a lighter-weight semi-synthetic fluid because conventional 5W-30 weight oil shifts like glue in cold weather, and hundreds if not thousands of Honda Civic Si owners were complaining about grinding gears on the 1st-to-2nd shift. In this regard, the best "fix" is a fully synthetic MTF, and several brands have been mentioned above. They all work well enough, particularly Amsoil and Redline, but they are somewhat expensive. I decided, simply on a hunch and purely as an experiment, to see if adding some weight to Honda's thin MTF would improve the shifting characteristics. I chose Mobil 1 5W-30 because it was on the shelf in my garage, it is a fully synthetic oil, and it's inexpensive. It turned out it worked well initially and in cold weather, and for thousands of miles thereafter. What's not to like?

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
The problem is that my 2007 Civic Si manual trasmission is very notchy in the first 3 gears, and I really want to use Synchromesh oils instead of Honda MTF.


First of all, the Honda MTF IS a synchromesh manual transmission fluid.

Secondly, we want to stay away from any general gear oil or differential specific lubricant because of two things:
1. they don't have the needed additive pack for a synchromesh transmission,
2. the viscosities are thicker than dedicated MTF's for the same SAE gear oil grade.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1231182/4

For now, disregard the API and SAE grades, we'll come back to that later and besides, you can read across the viscosities here:

http://bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

The MTF 2 was one of the low viscosity MTF's (about 7.5 cSt@100C) to come along after about 2005 to improve shifting in cold temps and not necessarily to reduce wear.

Now to reality. Your transmission is a 2007 and undoubtedly has much wear on the synchros' and bearingings, so shifting may never be as new. One of the first things is to check your clutch plate clearance and make sure the clutch is completely dis-engaging.

Secondly, since you have wear, a slightly higher viscosity fluid may help, but not totally eliminate, your notchiness.

So going up to a higher viscosity fluid may help, such as up to a 10.0cSt@100C fluid.

So in the SAE gear oil grading system

http://bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

you could use a dedicated MTF in the 75W to 85 grade range, starting with a 75W80 such as:

Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt

Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt Since you have access to Valvoline products.

Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt

Redline MTL 75W80

Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)

GM/ACDELCO synchromesh’s

Volvo MTF 645

 

[mauric3]

Originally Posted By: Hounds
Highlander, you asked how many people have used my recommended concoction. I have no idea. I've posted similar comments on vtec.net, clubrsx.com, honda-tech.com, and other boards over the years, and from time to time a few people have taken the time to say it worked for them to the point that it eliminated or mitigated various problems they'd experienced, including grinding gears on the 1st-to-2nd gearshift.

JFI, my recommendation regarding the use of 5W-30 weight oil in a manual transmission Honda is by no means novel or unique. For at least two decades, 5W-30 weight conventional motor oil was the manual transmission "fluid" that Honda used and recommended as the replacement fill. Just plain 'ol motor oil. In the last fifteen years or so, Honda began to sell "Genuine Honda" MTF, and later still, that MTF was re-formulated as a semi-synthetic. (The part numbers changed.) It's my hunch that Honda went to a lighter-weight semi-synthetic fluid because conventional 5W-30 weight oil shifts like glue in cold weather, and hundreds if not thousands of Honda Civic Si owners were complaining about grinding gears on the 1st-to-2nd shift. In this regard, the best "fix" is a fully synthetic MTF, and several brands have been mentioned above. They all work well enough, particularly Amsoil and Redline, but they are somewhat expensive. I decided, simply on a hunch and purely as an experiment, to see if adding some weight to Honda's thin MTF would improve the shifting characteristics. I chose Mobil 1 5W-30 because it was on the shelf in my garage, it is a fully synthetic oil, and it's inexpensive. It turned out it worked well initially and in cold weather, and for thousands of miles thereafter. What's not to like?


So would having amsoil mtf mixed with honda oem mtf be a good combo or pure amsoil mtf is better or just stick with oem mtf? Apparently the oem honda mtf right now is supposed to be better especially in cold start? does the oem honda mtf have synchromesh in it?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: mauric3


So would having amsoil mtf mixed with honda oem mtf be a good combo or pure amsoil mtf is better or just stick with oem mtf? Apparently the oem honda mtf right now is supposed to be better especially in cold start? does the oem honda mtf have synchromesh in it?


As I stated in the above post #4150957, the Honda OEM MTL IS a synchromesh fluid.

A synchromesh fluid is a dedicated MTF that has a specific additive package for the synchronized MT's.

I would not mix the fluids for various reasons. Use the Amsoil product.